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PCN Code 21, Ambiguous sign case
tim_london
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 19:58
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Got a PCN today (8th August). Parked on parking suspension bay. I clearly noticed the sign and I read it extensively and got second opinion from my wife before I paid the parking bay fee online and walked away. We both interpreted as applicable to the 3rd of August only and the bay does not apply to me because there were no 'car club bay' nearby which boosted my confidence that it did not apply.

Photo of sign, taken by enforcement officer:




I'm still not sure if the enforcement officer got it wrong or I interpreted wrong.

When I came home only in retrospect I found out that where the car club bay where on Google street view:


However as you can just about see in the 3rd picture with my car the 'car club bay' was boarded up so there was no way I would have known the car club bay was in front of my car.


Not sure if I can appeal and on what basis? Opinions appreciated.
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post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 19:58
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 20:32
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Well you are fair and square outside 39 but not adjacent to the car club bays


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5122411,-...6384!8i8192

And the suspension can only be in place for 6 months as per the authorisation for the sign

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-3897.pdf

and it is doubtful that the reason for suspension is authorised by the TMO but you would need to ask for that


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hcandersen
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 21:01
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We both interpreted as applicable to the 3rd of August only and the bay does not apply to me because there were no 'car club bay' nearby which boosted my confidence that it did not apply.

1. 3 August? The sign says 'From 3 July 0000-23.59';
2. And if you weren't in the suspended area then the date is not relevant, surely!

I would not risk this at adjudication - although we've yet to see and assess the PCN - because you were parked in one of the two pay to park bays o/s 39. Yes, 'adjacent to car club bays' is ambiguous, but nonetheless you were o/s 39.
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 06:23
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Art 30 here deals with suspensions---they might get away with social distancing:-

http://westminstertransportationservices.c...mN1Y0dSbQ%3D%3D

Mick
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 07:43
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 07:23) *
Art 30 here deals with suspensions---they might get away with social distancing:-

http://westminstertransportationservices.c...mN1Y0dSbQ%3D%3D

Mick


Looks like, and they look to have the time locked up as well, this one seems like a pay the discount


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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 11:34
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 07:23) *
Art 30 here deals with suspensions---they might get away with social distancing:-

http://westminstertransportationservices.c...mN1Y0dSbQ%3D%3D

Mick

I'm not so sure of that, the only powers the council has seem to be:

a) Traffic flow or safety
b) building or utility works
c) house moves & similar
d) special attractions that may block the road
e) weddings, funerals & other special occasions.

Unless a pandemic counts as a special occasion? unsure.gif


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stamfordman
post Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 11:38
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Does a suspension have to have an end date?
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 13:02
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 12:34) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 07:23) *
Art 30 here deals with suspensions---they might get away with social distancing:-

http://westminstertransportationservices.c...mN1Y0dSbQ%3D%3D

Mick

I'm not so sure of that, the only powers the council has seem to be:

a) Traffic flow or safety
b) building or utility works
c) house moves & similar
d) special attractions that may block the road
e) weddings, funerals & other special occasions.

Unless a pandemic counts as a special occasion? unsure.gif


"for the purpose of facilitating the movement of traffic or promoting its safety"

Doesn't have to be road traffic, could be foot traffic. I would imagine adjudicators would tend to side with the Council in these unusual days.

Mick
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 13:52
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 14:02) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 12:34) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 07:23) *
Art 30 here deals with suspensions---they might get away with social distancing:-

http://westminstertransportationservices.c...mN1Y0dSbQ%3D%3D

Mick

I'm not so sure of that, the only powers the council has seem to be:

a) Traffic flow or safety
b) building or utility works
c) house moves & similar
d) special attractions that may block the road
e) weddings, funerals & other special occasions.

Unless a pandemic counts as a special occasion? unsure.gif


+1 The suspension does not have to have a n end date but as the sign may only be displayed for six months that is the extent of the suspension

"for the purpose of facilitating the movement of traffic or promoting its safety"

Doesn't have to be road traffic, could be foot traffic. I would imagine adjudicators would tend to side with the Council in these unusual days.

Mick



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