[NIP Wizard] sp30 in hire car |
[NIP Wizard] sp30 in hire car |
Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:18
Post
#1
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 11 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,849 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - November 2018 Date of the NIP: - 50 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 51 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Cleveden Road / Great Western Road Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - courtesy car How many current points do you have? - 3 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I believe I was caught by what I have always thought was a red light camera but appears to be a dual speed and red light camera doing 42MPH in a 30. What I'm wondering is if I have a chance to appeal? NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:18:49 +0000 This post has been edited by jacksonmaia: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 14:40 |
|
|
Advertisement |
Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:18
Post
#
|
Advertise here! |
|
|
|
Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:40
Post
#2
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
The revoking of your DL is an automatic administrative event by DVLA, so can't be appealed in court.
Your only option is to go "unsigned" where you complete and return the S.172 but do not sign it. Without your signature it is 99.9% unlikely you will be convicted of the offence. However, do expect the police to come knocking at your door.. You will need to avoid them for 6 months. -------------------- |
|
|
Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 09:10
Post
#3
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 11 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,849 |
Would that be 6 months from the date of offence?
Do I complete the NIP naming myself? Then ignore any further communications? What should I say if I fail to avoid them and am questioned? |
|
|
Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 14:21
Post
#4
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
You complete the response form except for the signature.
Peter is confused on the need to avoid the Police, any verbal response wouldn’t corroborated it wouldn’t be admissible as evidence anyway. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 14:46
Post
#5
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
You complete the response form except for the signature. Peter is confused on the need to avoid the Police, any verbal response wouldn’t corroborated it wouldn’t be admissible as evidence anyway. Not confused. Depends if OP wants the confrontation. If he lives with parents maybe they don't want it either. Example: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77380 -------------------- |
|
|
Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 14:52
Post
#6
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
UpdateThey eventually caught up with me and......No pressure to sign, no verbal s172Straight to charged for failing to furnishEven the constable couldn't understand why he wasn't being asked to get me to sign the formThey said they had never heard of anyone being charged for this when the details they had showed I had sent the form back!Just have to wait and see what happens next That’s not much hassle compared to keeping ‘not being in’ so they keep coming back..... -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 21:13
Post
#7
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 11 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,849 |
Thanks for the responses. If I am confronted by the police, what should I say and what should I not say?
If I receive the nip again after sending it unsigned, do I need to send it for a 2nd time? Or can I then ignore it? Also is it 6 months from the offence or 6 months from sending unsigned nip? This post has been edited by jacksonmaia: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 21:36 |
|
|
Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 04:07
Post
#8
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
6 months from date of offence.
If they send it to you again, you again send it back as late as you can within the permitted time, again unsigned. The first reply you should post back first class from a post office (get free proof of posting) to arrive on the 26th or 27th day from the day the notice was served (which is day 1). If the Police catch up with you you can tell them verbally anything you like, you just politely decline to sign it, I’d suggest simply telling them that you have replied in accordance with the S172 request and that in Scotland there is no legal requirement to sign it and as such you won’t be. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 10:34
Post
#9
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
If the Police catch up with you you can tell them verbally anything you like... I'm not so sure about that one, I would think the best course of action would be to say as little as possible, preferably nothing at all. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 11:36
Post
#10
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
If he admitted driving there would be no corroboration, the S172 written request has a specific exemption, but I agree, what I said above would suffice.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 13:21
Post
#11
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 11 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,849 |
Thanks guys, I think I will pursue this course of action. One more question, will the fact that I was the only authorised driver on the courtesy car make a difference? As this could be used as evidence maybe?
|
|
|
Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 14:05
Post
#12
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Thanks guys, I think I will pursue this course of action. One more question, will the fact that I was the only authorised driver on the courtesy car make a difference? As this could be used as evidence maybe? Evidence of what? That either you were driving the car, or someone was driving the car without authorisation? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 18:36
Post
#13
|
|
Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,213 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
Peter is confused on the need to avoid the Police, any verbal response wouldn’t corroborated it wouldn’t be admissible as evidence anyway. This is news to me (the second part at least). Would you care to elaborate? -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
|
|
Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 23:43
Post
#14
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 11 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,849 |
Thanks guys, I think I will pursue this course of action. One more question, will the fact that I was the only authorised driver on the courtesy car make a difference? As this could be used as evidence maybe? Evidence of what? That either you were driving the car, or someone was driving the car without authorisation? Both I guess... Am I right in guessing it's irrelevant as the whole point is to drag things out for 4 more months so that it's basically timed out |
|
|
Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 01:46
Post
#15
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
You may find that you are prosecuted for s.172, many people have been, but so far in every case the PF has withdrawn the case at the last minute, so you have to hold your nerve.
-------------------- |
|
|
Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 02:00
Post
#16
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Peter is confused on the need to avoid the Police, any verbal response wouldn’t corroborated it wouldn’t be admissible as evidence anyway. This is news to me (the second part at least). Would you care to elaborate? There was a big discussion on here a while back, evidence in Scotland all has to be corroborated, even a confession has to have corroborating evidence, there is a specific exemption for the written S172 response but not for a verbal one, so a verbal S172 response would not be admissible in evidence in Scotland without corroboration, it’s hard to see what corroboration there could be? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 20:08
Post
#17
|
|
Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,213 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
The Privy Council (in Brown v Stott, echoing what the High Court of Justiciary said in Foster v Farrell) said that an oral admission to an s. 172 requirement was admissible in Scotland - shall I let them know that they are wrong?
-------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
|
|
Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 06:15
Post
#18
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
No, I think they got it right. (My emphasis)
QUOTE While it must be recognised that the respondent's admission that she was the driver will be an important adminicle of evidence in the Crown case at the trial, the Crown will still require to satisfy the court that the admission was reliable, provide corroboration of the admission
This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 06:16 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 13:34
Post
#19
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 11 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,849 |
UPDATE: On the 2nd I sent NIP back unsigned. Today I have received response with another NIP and another 28 days. With it came a letter. It says:
"I acknowledge receipt of the driver information form wrhich you have partially completed. I would ask that, if you were the driver, you fully complete section A of the form in order that conditional offer of a fixed penalty may be sent to you. The enclosed form must be signed by you in order to preclude the matter being reffered to the procurator fiscal for a contravention fo section 172 of the road traffic act 1988, which would incur a minimum of 6 points and a fine of up to £1000. If you were not responsible for the alledged offence because someone else was driving or you sold the vehicle prior to the date of offence, you should forward the details of the driver or new keeper" So... same again? wait 26 days then send back unsigned? |
|
|
Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 16:23
Post
#20
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
That’s what I would do.
You’ll note that they don’t actually say that not signing it is an offence, just that it would be referred to the procurator fiscal..... that doesn’t mean it’s NOT an offence, just they can’t say it IS either as it’s as yet untested in Scotland. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 22:13 |