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ParkingEye NTK Sarn Park
ycymro
post Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 11:26
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As registered keeper I've received an NTK when the driver parked for 2hours 20 mins at Sarn Park, overstaying the 2hour time. The Car's dash cam recorded that there's not an entrance sign. To park, the driver followed the painted instructions on the road and the dash cam shows that no signs could be read during this route, nor when the vehicle was parked. The NTK states there are clearly displayed entrance signs stating this is private land and that car parking is managed by ParkingEye, but this isn't true. No signs could be read explaining any terms and conditions of parking.
I assume that this doesn't follow the BPA Code of Practice.

I'd appreciate your advice on whether this is a suitable defence, and whether the NTK adheres to the relevant requirements.

Thanks













The driver parked where the grey car is in this photograph





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post Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 11:26
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ycymro
post Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 09:16
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QUOTE (bearclaw @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 10:41) *
If that's the only sign then it also makes no mention at all of a charge. So they cannot form a contract.

Personally I'd be attacking that signage hard as being a primary point in any appeal or court case. I'd also be getting back onto the MSA pointing out that if this goes on you will be having a counrt case, and you will be requiring them to attend as witnesses etc to answer for how the contract is arranged, the actions of their agents etc... whcih will cost them a lot more than just cancelling the charge.

Did the driver just park and attend the facilities or were you buying fuel or checking tyres as well?


Thanks for your reply.

The driver stopped due to extreme tiredness and slept it off, then bought a coffee at the services and left after drinking it within the coffee shop.

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ycymro
post Thu, 28 Mar 2019 - 23:37
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I’ve emailed MSA and sent email but not getting replies. My appeal to Parking Eye was turned down.

Can I re-appeal against Parking Eye by sending the attached appeal, or will I need to appeal to Popla due to stopping at MSA for a nap due to extreme tiredness and ended up sleeping for 2hrs 22 mins - 22 mins more than is allowed for free, and because the on-site signs do not comply with BPA or POFA therefore a parking contract isn’t in place between land owner and motorist, and a parking charge can’t be made.

My planned appeal to Popla is below:



















This post has been edited by ycymro: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 00:25
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ycymro
post Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 10:37
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 13:08) *
Theyve met POFA so no need to hide driver
THey are required to allow 2 hours of PARKING under the MSA regulations
Passing in front of a camera is not parking
Tell the MSA to cancel this, as you are aware theyre required to allow for two hours of parking, and that their agents cameras do not allow this.
Appeal to PE as well, but only AFTER talking to the MSA>


My appeals to Parking Eye and to the MSA ops manager were rejected.

My appeal to popla for overstaying the 2 hour limit (2hrs 22 mins) has also been rejected and I’m considering my next steps.

Appeal reasons were:
1. I stopped at the MSA for my safety due to tiredness.

2. Before parking I refuelled, checked and adjusted the tyre pressures and bought and drunk a cup of coffee, all whilst at the on-site fuel station. This took approximately 25 mins. I then parked in the car park, fell asleep, and ANPR shows I left the MSA 22 minutes over the allowed 2 hour ‘free’ time. I therefore parked for less than 1hr 57 mins after negotiating the route to the car park, finding somewhere to park etc.

3. Parking Eye submitted a plan to popla showing the location of parking signs. I submitted photos showing that 1/3 of the signs weren’t installed as shown on the plan

4. The plan shows an entrance sign and I submitted photos showing that no such entrance sign exists. BPA CoP Appendix B defines the requirement for ‘mandatory entrance signs’ by stating ‘A standard form of entrance sign must be placed at the entrance to the parking area.’ Appendix B describes the design and layout of such signage.

5. No entrance sign and fewer signs than on the signage plan means that adequate notice wasn’t given whilst the car was at the MSA regarding T&Cs for parking (POFA Sch4, para 2, sub 2 and 3), and therefore there can be no contract, and no charge.

The popla assessment states that falling asleep is no excuse for not seeking out T&C signage and paying the amount before sleeping. Following review of the PE signage plan, popla states that signage was sufficient. Regarding the time spent at the fuel station and not being parked, popla states “For the avoidance of doubt, motorists are not just required to pay for parking, but for utilising the facilities also.” It concludes “Ultimately, it is a motorist’s responsibility to ensure they adhere to the terms and conditions of a site when parking on it. As the appellant did not pay for his parking, he has failed to comply. As such, I conclude that the PCN was issued correctly.Accordingly, I must refuse this appeal.”

I’d appreciate your guidance as to next steps.
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ostell
post Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 11:06
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POPLA appear to have added extra conditions to the contract that PE attempted to create. I would leave and wait to see what PE do next.

Also complain to POPLA about the assessor making up those extra conditions that were not on the sign
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 25 Jun 2019 - 12:03
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I would makea complaint to the Lead Assessor.

The "contract" is for parking. No more, no less. The MSA are under a legal obligation to allow 2 hours free parkling, NOT two hours fre use of the site.

Tell PE to cancel the notice. If they attempt court action, you will involve the MSA in this and sue them for failing to offer 2 horus free parking, at a rate three times that which PE are asking, and (as PEs contracts have this) this cost will be passed to PE.
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ycymro
post Mon, 8 Jul 2019 - 17:39
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I complained to POPLA because they have misunderstood the parking signage at this MSA and believe that the contract is for parking and using the facilities, and because the didn’t consider in my appeal a photograph which clearly shows there is no ‘entrance sign’ which is a requirement of the BPA CoP.

Today, I received he following response from POPLA’:

“Your complaint about POPLA

Thank you for your email, which was passed to me by the POPLA team, as I am responsible for responding to complaints.

I note from your correspondence that you are unhappy with the decision POPLA has reached.

POPLA is a one-stage process and we would not change a decision because either party disputes the assessor’s decision. However, we may consider an appeal if there has been a procedural error, for example – if we failed to allow a motorist to comment on a parking operator’s evidence pack.

Having looked at this case, I am satisfied that no procedural error has occurred. Therefore, the decision outcome is correct and will not change.

I note that you have raised issues with the signage on site and state that your photographic evidence was not considered that was sent to us on 6 May 2019. Whilst I understand your concerns with the signs, the assessor has assessed the signage against the BPA Code of Practice and was satisfied that the requirements have been met.

Whilst I note that the assessor has not addressed your evidence regarding the signage in her report, I am satisfied that this was taken into consideration. However, this had no bearing on the decision reached. I note that there may not have been an entrance sign present at the site however regardless of this, there are numerous signs displayed within the car park itself that you had the opportunity to review. The assessor has made a judgement call based on the information received.

You have also stated that you were not parked for the whole duration of the time spent at the site. I acknowledge that you had to re fuel your car, check and adjust your tyre pressure and purchase a coffee however, by doing this you are gaining use of the facilities on site. Therefore, you entered into a contract and was bound by the terms for parking. You remained on site for two hours and 22 minutes however this car park only offered two hours free parking. All tariffs included the first 2 hours free parking and therefore, you were to make a payment of £15.00 to cover your parking session. As you did not purchase parking time at the site, you were parked in breach of the terms and conditions.

I believe the assessor has considered all grounds and evidence and therefore, the decision reached will not change.

While I understand this is not the outcome you had hoped for, our involvement in your appeal has now concluded. If you wish to further dispute the issue of the PCN, this will be between yourself and the operator directly.

As we have reached the end of our process, it will not be appropriate to respond to any further correspondence on this matter. For clarity, if you choose to send us further correspondence, it will be noted but we will not respond.

Yours sincerely,
Ashlea Foresaw
POPLA Complaints Team”

Following excellent guidance above from Nosferatu1001, Ostell and Bearclaw, I’ve also complained to Parking Eye but not received a response other than ‘we’ve received your email’.

I’d appreciate your comments about the above. I assume that I should await a response from PE before preparing anything for court.

Thank you
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 07:49
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Thats the usual crap response

They clearly missed that a MSA must allow two hours PARKING. This is not optional, and not governed by any contract offered by the operator - the MSA MUST allow this. They have no choiec

I woul dwrite to the MSE, TELLING THEM to cancel this, otherwise you WILL join them in a counterclaim should their *agent* be foolish enough to try to take them to court.
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