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ASDA Car Parking Shirley Solihull - do I have a chance, Parking Eye Strike again....
advicewelcome
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 01:52
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Received a parking ticket from a ASDA underground car park in Shirley, Solihull.

The car park was pretty empty on the day the driver parked there.

The driver didn't see the signs but there are some at entrances.

Is there a way out of this as I am regular customer at the store and shocked they have Parking Eye to enforce against customers and the driver.

Can provide video and pics of entrance and signs.

Welcome any advice, if I have a chance or will be perused and enforced against with CCJs?

Pics of ticket below...



And...



This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 09:44
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post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 01:52
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The Rookie
post Sat, 4 Nov 2017 - 03:35
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That is for a screen ticket as they already have keepers details.

Dear Sir/Madam,
Your ref: 'PCN No. here'
I am appealing this PCN as keeper, you have failed to follow the time schedules and other requirements to use PoFA 2012 to hold me liable, as such I have no liability in this matter.

Please contact the driver, the driver has been shown the PCN and may or may not contact you, for the avoidance of doubt I will not be naming the driver.

Either cancel the PCN or provide the POPLA code, we both know POPLA will uphold the appeal.

Yours Faithfully
AW


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advicewelcome
post Sun, 5 Nov 2017 - 22:05
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 4 Nov 2017 - 03:35) *
That is for a screen ticket as they already have keepers details.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Your ref: 'PCN No. here'
I am appealing this PCN as keeper, you have failed to follow the time schedules and other requirements to use PoFA 2012 to hold me liable, as such I have no liability in this matter.
Please contact the driver, the driver has been shown the PCN and may or may not contact you, for the avoidance of doubt I will not be naming the driver.
Either cancel the PCN or provide the POPLA code, we both know POPLA will uphold the appeal.
Yours Faithfully
AW


Scribbled thus down and sent in.

So grateful for the reply.

Figured it would be easier to find this info.

Ta.
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advicewelcome
post Thu, 23 Nov 2017 - 10:54
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Thanks for previous replies.

Firstly got a letter stating that the time has lapsed...





Then got a letters about the appeal process...













I assume I have 28 days from the 15-Nov - i.e. 13-Dec to get something in?

Should it be along the same lines of the appeal?

The fact that they sent two different responses - does it help my appeal?

Any pointers welcome?

This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 - 10:58
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ostell
post Thu, 23 Nov 2017 - 11:56
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Your appeal is that same, the NTK does not comply with the requirements of POFA to hold the keeper liable but you will have to spell it out for POPLA as if they were 5 year olds (perhaps they are!).

Failed to send the notice with in 14 days, 9 (4)
Failed to warn the keeper 9 (2) (f)
Failed to identify the creditor 9 (2) (h)

In fact most of 9 (2) but you must spell them out.
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advicewelcome
post Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 14:10
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QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 23 Nov 2017 - 11:56) *
Your appeal is that same, the NTK does not comply with the requirements of POFA to hold the keeper liable but you will have to spell it out for POPLA as if they were 5 year olds (perhaps they are!).

Failed to send the notice with in 14 days, 9 (4)
Failed to warn the keeper 9 (2) (f)
Failed to identify the creditor 9 (2) (h)

In fact most of 9 (2) but you must spell them out.



So grateful for the reply.

Was scrambling around to get something in the post yesterday.

Can I write into POPLA directly with the above suggested points - to get some appeal in within time?



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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 14:39
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You do it online, same as everyone
Save your appeal as a PDF, upload it to the site after you pick "other" as the reaosn for the appeal. make sure it uploads correctly, and in the appeals box refer to your file with filename my_popla_appeal (or whatever you called it wink.gif) as containing your appeal.
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advicewelcome
post Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 15:20
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 14:39) *
You do it online, same as everyone
Save your appeal as a PDF, upload it to the site after you pick "other" as the reaosn for the appeal. make sure it uploads correctly, and in the appeals box refer to your file with filename my_popla_appeal (or whatever you called it wink.gif) as containing your appeal.


Much appreciated. Apologies for all these newbie questions. This time of the year I don't have my head on my shoulders.

Says I need a 10 digital code, assume its the POPLA Ref number included in the last letter.

Are they anal about dates? Considering I am a day late, I was thinking they would be more forgiving with a postal appeal?

This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 15:21
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kommando
post Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 18:29
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QUOTE
Says I need a 10 digital code, assume its the POPLA Ref number included in the last letter.


Yes the ref number.

Do it online as it gets there today and not monday or tuesday.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 22:36
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QUOTE
Are they anal about dates? Considering I am a day late, I was thinking they would be more forgiving with a postal appeal?

Wrong. A POPLA code where the 28 days were up on Wednesday, still works over the weekend. They work for a few days past the 28.

DO IT ONLINE, AS DESCRIBED ALREADY.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 22:36
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advicewelcome
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 02:27
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Sent the below to them, they wrote back and asked for it to be put into the correct format and resubmitted.

Is there anything I should correct or add to the below before resending???...


Dear Sir/Madam,

Please find below an outline appeal, this appeal was delayed as I was required to return to the area to take photos and videos of the location. I am unsure how I can provide this evidence to support my application - if they can be received electronically or if I can send them in via email to you?

In the first instance, I wish to write to indicated that the NTK does not comply with the requirements of POFA to hold the keeper liable.

I understand that what has been provided by the Parking Operator (PE), is a POFA 2012 non-compliant NTK. My understanding is that the NTK must be delivered within 14 days. As the date on that document indicates the 14-Oct, which is a Saturday; it is reasonable assumed that the delivery is 2 working days which is the following Tuesday – thus this is outside the 14 days required. The document also states Reminder – however no other relevant document has been received.

POFA 2012 section 9(4), 9(2)(f), 9(2)(h) and most of 9(2) have not been complied too, along with other areas of the code.

There are also issues with the signage/positioning in relation to the BPA Code of Practice - and further issues with this ticket; I can send these further details via email if there is an email address to send to (and if the above grounds are not deemed sufficient).

Welcome your kind email confirmation to the above email address - and I can send in supporting evidence if required. As I am frequently away from the above address, I welcome all communication via email.

My sincere thanks for your consideration"



Welcome any feedback as need to send this in today.

Thanks for past help.

 

This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 02:27
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 04:18
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Yikes, you dont move swiftly....

Given it was email, you just convert a doc with all pictures in it to pdf and email. It’s a terribly short appeal given it’s been three weeks, but at least has not pofa compliant in there. Just hav3 to hope that’s enough.
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advicewelcome
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 15:03
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 04:18) *
Yikes, you dont move swiftly....Given it was email, you just convert a doc with all pictures in it to pdf and email. It’s a terribly short appeal given it’s been three weeks, but at least has not pofa compliant in there. Just hav3 to hope that’s enough.


Welcome any reply or feedback over the next hrs to this message as getting the reply in...


Ta. Working as fast as I can considering I was not even here and did not receive any letter from them.

Does the below content reply work for POPLA submission?

"In the first instance, I wish to write to indicated that the NTK does not comply with the requirements of POFA to hold the keeper liable.

I understand that what has been provided by the Parking Operator (PE), is a POFA 2012 non-compliant NTK. My understanding is that the NTK must be delivered within 14 days. As the date on that document indicates the 14-Oct, which is a Saturday; it is reasonable assumed that the delivery is 2 working days which is the following Tuesday – thus this is outside the 14 days required. The document also states Reminder – however no other relevant document has been received.

POFA 2012 section 9(4), 9(2)(f), 9(2)(h) and most of 9(2) have not been complied too, along with other areas of the code.

Also the general signage and its positioning are not compliant to the required standards and the spirit of the standards. For example, as you can see from the below picture the required BPA entrance signage is not at the entrance of the car park – but right next to the bend once the car park has already been entered into. If a driver has entered the car park and then concentrating on going down into the underground area (which will already create a change in light conditions) and then around this bend – they will not see the required BPA “entrance” sign."



Have a couple of pics of signs - the first one is next to the bend into the carpark, this is after the entrance- if you watching the road to drive around that bend there is no chance you will see it the sign. Assume I can complain about this and include the pics...





https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/...vision-May-2017
"You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for. Signage at the entrance must explain that ANPR is in use at the location and the purpose for which it is being used. An image of a camera on its own without any further information would not be sufficient"

Does have it on the sign - but is it sufficent?

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Docu...nuary_2018.pdf

Am not sure it is at the entrance of the car park - that surely should be before you enter the underground area.









Is this sign not compliant in any way, its high up and above a shutter and not easy to located. Use it as a defence as well?...




Submitted in - however if there is any additional important information, may be able to send it in.



This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 17:08
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advicewelcome
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:34
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Assume there is nowt else I can do for now?

They totally messed up my name and spelt it with random letters - does not fill me with a sense administrative confidence.



This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:37
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Jlc
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:38
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...await that they've decided not to contend and you win by default.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 20:14
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This will not be won on non-POFA argument.

The 'PCN' in the OP was the Reminder, which does not show the POFA words because it doesn't have to. It does show that the PCN was issued on 5th October, after just 4 days, and the fact they sent a liability notice in November shows they ARE relying on the POFA.

I would rush to try to get Asda (Store Manager or Head Office) to cancel this - and if they agree, make sure they immediately tell ParkingEye that you will withdraw the doomed POPLA appeal - act quickly. TOMORROW. PE won't cancel if POPLA is allowed to progress.

IMHO you need Asda to step in, but did the car stay there for over six hours? Or two visits?
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advicewelcome
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 03:34
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 20:14) *
This will not be won on non-POFA argument. The 'PCN' in the OP was the Reminder, which does not show the POFA words because it doesn't have to. It does show that the PCN was issued on 5th October, after just 4 days, and the fact they sent a liability notice in November shows they ARE relying on the POFA.
I would rush to try to get Asda (Store Manager or Head Office) to cancel this - and if they agree, make sure they immediately tell ParkingEye that you will withdraw the doomed POPLA appeal - act quickly. TOMORROW. PE won't cancel if POPLA is allowed to progress. IMHO you need Asda to step in, but did the car stay there for over six hours? Or two visits?


Just seen reply - thanks but I only have today before the POPLA time frame for any further evidence runs out (yikes!!).

I can try and call ASDA TODAY - is it still worth me trying?

The response from PE to POPLA is below - is there anything in here which I can use to win this?

Appreciate any direction as its the last day today to get any further points into POPLA.



Evidence submitted by PE to POPLA which was sent to me in a pack by POPLA:




















This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 03:37
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advicewelcome
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:18
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.. am noticing the sign on the front of the car park is not lighted - and the other entrance sign is on a bend. Any legs in an argument about signage in any way? It was about 1pm'ish so I guess not?

If there is nothing admin wise I can win - I will have to call the ASDA folks - but I am unsure if there customer service lot are going to be able to give me a quick turn around on this? I have the store manager name - I could guessing his email and emailing him (clutching straws?) - they have a large cafe and my only argument is that time has gone by inside the store (if indeed I did not leave and come back).

Any pointers as running out of time and be darned if I allow PE my money.

This post has been edited by advicewelcome: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:32
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ostell
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:48
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This is a sign layout plan not a map. The key to the signs actually states "to be installed on". Where is the actual map showing the signs actually installed? Can you produce a map, possibly contradicting their evidence.

You could point out that the parking is unrestricted after 3PM and you were well inside that time. The signs are confusing in that they are offering a time limited stay and an (almost) unlimited stay.

Their photos are 2016, what proof that is the current situation? Why dated 2016, was that the first installation or has the camera times been altered.

But did you get the first letter that they allegedly sent or was that purely a figment of their imagination? I would query why they sent a reminder letter 9 days after the alleged original letter when you have 28 days to pay. Did someone realise that the original letter had not been sent and tried to cover it up?

Someone had a go at ASDA on their facebook page and had a promise that the charge would be dropped. Go into the store and speak to a manager and not just a bod on the customer disservice desk

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:50
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advicewelcome
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 12:07
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QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:48) *
This is a sign layout plan not a map. The key to the signs actually states "to be installed on". Where is the actual map showing the signs actually installed? Can you produce a map, possibly contradicting their evidence.

Can have a look at the car park to see if what they are saying is correct?


QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:48) *
You could point out that the parking is unrestricted after 3PM and you were well inside that time. The signs are confusing in that they are offering a time limited stay and an (almost) unlimited stay.

Ah yeah, but it does say that its free after 3pm if you enter after - but maybe not on all the signs.


QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:48) *
Their photos are 2016, what proof that is the current situation? Why dated 2016, was that the first installation or has the camera times been altered.

I can raise this is a response to POPLA - if I can find that the signs are different in any way now - will help the case.


QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:48) *
But did you get the first letter that they allegedly sent or was that purely a figment of their imagination? I would query why they sent a reminder letter 9 days after the alleged original letter when you have 28 days to pay. Did someone realise that the original letter had not been sent and tried to cover it up?

Will check what I received. If was not received - would it win the case? - how can I prove a letter was not sent?


QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 11:48) *
Someone had a go at ASDA on their facebook page and had a promise that the charge would be dropped. Go into the store and speak to a manager and not just a bod on the customer disservice desk

Can try and do this, but managers are hard to get hold off - and even if I do I would be asking him to call Parking Eye today to get them to drop it?


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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 12:30
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You evidence in the form of a witness statment stating it was not RECEIVED
THey have to prove it was sent.
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