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Bus lane enforcement notice, Threads merged
Champagne
post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 11:48
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The other day I received a bus lane enforcement notice from when I was in Glasgow 2 weeks ago. I definitely did drive in the bus lane, but only because a sign told me to do so!!!! There were lots of diversions etc in place plus a yellow temporary sign saying ‘use bus lane’ which I did. I have no proof of the signs but they were definitely there as I would have continued following sat nav. I have a witness who was also in the car. I have since googled and found that the said bus lane enforcements were not in place but only at certain times (not when I drove through) but there were no signs I could see with any dates/times. What is the best way to go about appealing? Thanks!
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post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 11:48
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Champagne
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 20:31
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http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=121702

Ok so a while ago I posted that I had received a bus lane pcn whilst in Glasgow (see link to original post with all info). Today I received an email back from Glasgow City Council (attached). Basically they want photographic evidence of the signage I was talking about- which I don't have as I was driving (and don't have a dash cam). Is there any way I can now go about challenging this? It's basically my word against theirs (I did have a passenger who witnessed it, and I told them this). Thanks
I can't upload the pic, if anyone wants it pm me
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stamfordman
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 20:38
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I have asked for merge with your first thread.

to post pics use https://imgbb.com

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 20:38
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Champagne
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 06:10
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https://ibb.co/mTyP8e
Hopefully my image should be here
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 07:30
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QUOTE (Champagne @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 07:10) *
https://ibb.co/mTyP8e
Hopefully my image should be here


That letter is just wrong. What happened to the statutory notice of rejection and the right to appeal to the tribunal? post all communication, you to them and them to tou


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Champagne
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 10:15
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This was my response to their original letter (you can find their original letter at the beginning of the thread):
Please accept this letter as formal representation against Enforcement Notice as detailed above, as I do not believe the alleged contravention occurred.
I was visiting Glasgow on the weekend of 7th and 8th July 2018 and left on 9th July 2018. I am not local to the area and am unfamiliar with the roads and was therefore using sat nav to guide me out of the city. During the guidance, I travelled along Stockwell Street until I reached the traffic lights close to the Clutha pub.
The image attached shows where I was driving. On the approach to the traffic lights there were a number of yellow diversion signs, along with a yellow temporary sign which said 'use bus lane'. As there were a number of diversions in place (assumed to be something to do with the TRNSMT festival which was taking place that weekend), I followed the sign which told me to use the bus lane. Nowhere did I or my passenger see any signage with any times/dates that the diversions or bus lane suspensions were in place. I had a passenger with me at the time who also observed this signage, and it was agreed we should follow it due to the fact these signs were obviously there for some reason unknown to us at the time. Had the signs not been there we would have continued to follow the sat nav to guide us out of the city.
Once we had entered the bridge, it was unsafe to move out of the bus lane, due to the fact the other two lanes were travelling in the opposite direction. Even though we were diverted that way, there were no buses whatsoever (and barely any cars) travelling on the bridge.
I hope these facts will be taken into consideration as I feel I am being penalised for simply following signs which were present at the time.

https://ibb.co/kR8oZK
That's the pic I attached to my reply (taken from google maps)
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Champagne
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 20:03
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Does anyone have any suggestions on how to tackle this please! Or am I just likely to have to pay it? Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 21:14
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QUOTE (Champagne @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 21:03) *
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to tackle this please! Or am I just likely to have to pay it? Thanks



see post 24


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Champagne
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 05:30
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I’m going to reply to them regarding the appeal process which was mentioned in my original letter and they have disregarded in the second letter. I am getting panicked now about having to pay even more (according to the new letter it has already increased to £60 from the discounted fine of £30. The new letter says unless I provide the photographic evidence I will owe the £60- how will I stand if I don’t supply the evidence (I don’t have it) but I do challenge them not following the appeal process?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:36
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QUOTE (Champagne @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 06:30) *
I’m going to reply to them regarding the appeal process which was mentioned in my original letter and they have disregarded in the second letter. I am getting panicked now about having to pay even more (according to the new letter it has already increased to £60 from the discounted fine of £30. The new letter says unless I provide the photographic evidence I will owe the £60- how will I stand if I don’t supply the evidence (I don’t have it) but I do challenge them not following the appeal process?



that you cannot produce photos of the signs is understandable, why should you have taken any. The council might not accept this but you have the right to put it before an adjudicator. I suggest a phone call followed up by an e mail. What you need to confirm is that they follow procedure and if the do not accept your lack of the evidence they want they will issue a notice of rejection allowing you to take your case to adjudication.


Scotland is a pain in this respect


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Champagne
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 11:24
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Ok thank you! What would happen in the case of them not following procedure?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 13:33
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QUOTE (Champagne @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 12:24) *
Ok thank you! What would happen in the case of them not following procedure?


don't let that happen

That's the problem, we cannot find any way to have the charge certificate revoked within the process as happens in England, There must be one but some one will perhaps need to contact a Scottish lawyer to find out


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Champagne
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:00
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I phoned them today and they said the fine needs to increase to £60 before the appeal forms are sent out. I’ve emailed them as well
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 18:19
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QUOTE (Champagne @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 18:00) *
I phoned them today and they said the fine needs to increase to £60 before the appeal forms are sent out. I’ve emailed them as well


do you know if the penalty is still £30 I think paying might be the pragmatic approach. an appeal would come down to who the adjudicator believes. If you can get proof of an event that caused the diversion you have a chance but not more than 50/50


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Champagne
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 20:07
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I think it's gone up to £60 already- I logged on to try and pay it before it increased. I might ring them tomorrow and see how much it is. When I first got the fine I rang to ask if it would go up if I appealed it and they told me I'd still get the 14 days to pay it at £30!
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cp8759
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 21:33
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 14:33) *
QUOTE (Champagne @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 12:24) *
Ok thank you! What would happen in the case of them not following procedure?


don't let that happen

That's the problem, we cannot find any way to have the charge certificate revoked within the process as happens in England, There must be one but some one will perhaps need to contact a Scottish lawyer to find out

Having looked at the legislation, there is no mechanism to have the certificate revoked as the enforcement authority can simply instruct enforcement agents, without the need for any court to be involved at all (basically it's as if they could issue the OfR themselves). The only routes available are to either challenge the designation order on the basis that it breaches article 6 ECHR, or ask the authority to reset the penalty and go down the JR route if they unreasonably refuse, neither option is viable for 99.9% of people so in practice the best advice is to pay or emigrate.


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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 10:01
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+1

Articles 30 and 31 here:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2011/442/contents/made

Mick
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Champagne
post Sat, 15 Dec 2018 - 20:43
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So yesterday, I received a rejection letter for the appeal I made. They are offering to half the cost back to £30 so I'm wondering if it's just worth paying it, as they don't seem to be backing down, the letter I received does however contain some incorrect information, they say I was going over the bridge in the afternoon when it was actually morning. Does this mean anything? They do sound like they are admitting there was temporary signage out, but as I have no proof it was there when I got caught they are still trying to charge me. If I paid the £30 then made an appeal, could I claim it back?

https://ibb.co/cvCLVm8
https://ibb.co/F7RqBjB
There's my letter of rejection
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Incandescent
post Sat, 15 Dec 2018 - 21:54
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QUOTE
If I paid the £30 then made an appeal, could I claim it back?

No. Paying closes the case.
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cp8759
post Sat, 15 Dec 2018 - 23:40
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If you followed my advice in post 20 you'll have gathered some evidence about the diversion sign. If you didn't try and gather some evidence then, it is unlikely you'll be able to do so now, in which case you'd be best advised to pay the discount.


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Champagne
post Sun, 16 Dec 2018 - 08:08
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I managed to find a Facebook post fro Glasgow city council with diversions on but that is all. In the most recent letter I've posted above, they are admitting there were diversions but say they were not there when I went past 😡
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