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Help! Parking Ticket (UK P.A.O. Leeds)
tallgirl
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 12:06
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I have reading other posts with interest and I am wondering what people will make of a ticket I have been issued. Photo here: (for the reason - under with out valid permit or authority! the writing says 'photo of me leaving site')

The ticket was issued 2 minutes after I parked!
The carpark was for Maplin and other some other stores in Leeds. I did leave the site to use a post box but returned to use the stores. I did not read the detial on the signs so did not think leaving the site for a short time would result in a ticket.
(will get photo of sign later)
On reading the signs after the event the signs say parking is allowed for 1 hour and that leaving site is not allowed.

Does this need to be paid?

In leaving site I have not complied with the sign but it looks from others on the site that this is not enforceable??
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RD400E
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 12:14
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Is it me ? Or does that comedy notice NOT contain any reference as to what they're demanding money for?

Nowhere as fair as I can see does it say anything about being PARKED. The only clues are the company name and the fact they have your car details.

Anyway it's a private ticket so is unlikely to be enforceable!

This post has been edited by RD400E: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 12:16
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zamzara
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 12:27
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QUOTE (tallgirl @ Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 13:06) *
Does this need to be paid?


Certainly not. Total scam.


--------------------
Posts by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.
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bama
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 12:32
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There are other posts about P.A.O .here - have a look.....
(right cowboys)


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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tallgirl
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 14:16
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QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 13:32) *
There are other posts about P.A.O .here - have a look.....
(right cowboys)


Any chance you can signpost me to the other P.A.O. posts - seach function doesn't allow search terms of 3 characters
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tallgirl
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 14:19
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I do not pay - I presume they will chase
How should I proceed / what action should I take
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zamzara
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 15:38
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Standard procedure really: when they contact you deny any money is owed, and insist that if they want to pursue it to sue you within 14 days, and that any kind of 'debt collection' will be reported as harrasment.

They will try all kinds of bullshit to intimidate, such as the preposterous and illegal £3/day fee, so don't fall for it. Report it as deception/harrasment where appropriate, and come back here for advice/support if you need to.


--------------------
Posts by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.
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bama
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 21:19
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QUOTE (tallgirl @ Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 15:16) *
QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 13:32) *
There are other posts about P.A.O .here - have a look.....
(right cowboys)


Any chance you can signpost me to the other P.A.O. posts - seach function doesn't allow search terms of 3 characters


WIll have a prod. also know of an extensive analysis of PAO on another (unrelated) forum - but can't find it there. let me dig....

EDit Addition.

have dug and can't locate either.
apart from
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=12989

However I do remember that thread on the other forum quite well - it is mentioned in the pepipoo thread in the above link. It went into their Directors, Accounts (I still have a copy of one set) and their web site. my bet is their site still does not have information on appeals - "under development" is the usual ruse. At the time of that thread their webiste was a single page that re-driected to what looked to someones home BT account.

Just count them as shysters/scammers of the first order - read the private parking threads.
You will then be able to dismiss their invoice with an easy mind.

just checked their site http://www.parkingprotection.com/
and they have finally provided appeals info... still scammers though....

the url
http://www.parkingprotection.co.uk
ends up at
http://www.ukcps.net/

quite a few posts about UKCPS here as well...


Dante Alighieri would place them in the Eighth Circle being bitten by snakes.....

This post has been edited by bama: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 22:13


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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tallgirl
post Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 14:07
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Thanks for the comments...
any advice on what do if/when the company persue this
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DW190
post Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 14:23
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QUOTE (tallgirl @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 15:07) *
Thanks for the comments...
any advice on what do if/when the company persue this


Treat them like they treat you with as much bull*hit as you can muster up.


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zamzara
post Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 17:14
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QUOTE (tallgirl @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 15:07) *
Thanks for the comments...
any advice on what do if/when the company persue this


It will depend on whether it turns out to be a genuine ticket, or a private ticket.


--------------------
Posts by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.
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bama
post Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 18:45
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QUOTE (zamzara @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 18:14) *
QUOTE (tallgirl @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 15:07) *
Thanks for the comments...
any advice on what do if/when the company persue this


It will depend on whether it turns out to be a genuine ticket, or a private ticket.


By genuine do you mean Council ?

Can't see how this could be a Council ticket.


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Higs
post Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 19:32
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QUOTE (zamzara @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 18:14) *
It will depend on whether it turns out to be a genuine ticket, or a private ticket.
It's not genuine.


--------------------
is very grateful to Pepipoo but wishes 'the driver' didn't keep sending me back here...
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zamzara
post Sun, 22 Jul 2007 - 00:05
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QUOTE (bama @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 19:45) *
QUOTE (zamzara @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 18:14) *
QUOTE (tallgirl @ Sat, 21 Jul 2007 - 15:07) *
Thanks for the comments...
any advice on what do if/when the company persue this


It will depend on whether it turns out to be a genuine ticket, or a private ticket.


By genuine do you mean Council ?

Can't see how this could be a Council ticket.



You're right, I was confusing this thread with another (railway byelaws). The folly of having two windows open: Ignore my last post.

This post has been edited by zamzara: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 - 00:06


--------------------
Posts by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.
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andy_foster
post Sun, 22 Jul 2007 - 10:10
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tallgirl,

The simplest solution is probably to do absolutely nothing. Ignore any communications and threats, unless you receive an actual summons (which you wont).


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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muckychimney
post Sun, 22 Jul 2007 - 16:09
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 22 Jul 2007 - 11:10) *
tallgirl,

The simplest solution is probably to do absolutely nothing. Ignore any communications and threats, unless you receive an actual summons (which you wont).



Or if you get a letter from a debt colletion agency, all you gotta do then is write to them stating that the ticket is in dispute and that it should be refferred back to the issuing company.


--------------------
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tallgirl
post Tue, 24 Jul 2007 - 18:23
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[quote name='tallgirl' date='Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 13:06' post='199203']
I am wondering what people will make of a ticket I have been issued.
(for the reason - under with out valid permit or authority! the writing says 'photo of me leaving site')

Do you think they really have photo of me leaving site? and if so would this be enough evidence for them to do anything with the case

This is the notice from the carpark...

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nimh999
post Tue, 24 Jul 2007 - 19:24
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In general you shouldn't have any communication with these people. If you do write to them it should only be to tell them to pursue the charge with the driver of the vehicle. You don't have to tell them who that is and they can't make you. These as have been posted before seem to be virtually unenforcable. They rely on you paying up without question. Of course with a few more threats thrown in.

QUOTE (tallgirl @ Tue, 24 Jul 2007 - 19:23) *
Do you think they really have photo of me leaving site? and if so would this be enough evidence for them to do anything with the case
You could have some fun and write to them and ask them for a copy of the pictures in order for you to be able to identify the driver regarding this "serious offence".

Does anyone know if you can force these companies to supply photographic evidence of these "serious offences" under the Data Protection Act?

This post has been edited by nimh999: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 - 19:25
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bama
post Tue, 24 Jul 2007 - 19:52
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They are low lifes - fear not !

Search the Data protection register
http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

for
UK PAO
and you get company reg Z8285594

whose entry is shown below. Go to very bottom for info re the commpany "Parking Protection"
Looks like their registration does not over them for this use so they should be reported to the DP registrar maybe ?? smile.gif smile.gif

Data Protection Register - Entry Details




Registration Number: Z8285594

Date Registered: 22 January 2007 Registration Expires: 21 January 2008

Data Controller: UK PAO LIMITED

Address:
BALLAST HOUSE
RICHARDSHAW DRIVE
STANNINGLEY
WEST YORKSHIRE
LS28 6SB

This register entry describes, in very general terms, the personal data being processed by:
UK PAO LIMITED

This register entry contains personal data held for 3 purpose(s)
Purpose 1
Staff Administration

Purpose Description:
Appointments or removals, pay, discipline, superannuation, work management or other personnel matters in relation to the staff of the data controller.

Data subjects are:
Staff including volunteers, agents, temporary and casual workers
Relatives, guardians and associates of the data subject

Data classes are:
Personal Details
Family, Lifestyle and Social Circumstances
Education and Training Details
Employment Details
Financial Details
Racial or Ethnic Origin
Religious or Other Beliefs Of A Similar Nature
Trade Union Membership
Physical or Mental Health or Condition

Sources (S) and Disclosures (D)(1984 Act). Recipients (1998 Act):
Data subjects themselves
Relatives, guardians or other persons associated with the data subject
Current, past or prospective employers of the data subject
Education, training establishments and examining bodies
Suppliers, providers of goods or services
Financial organisations and advisers
Central Government
Employment and recruitment agencies

Transfers:
None outside the European Economic Area
Purpose 2
Advertising, Marketing & Public Relations

Purpose Description:
Advertising or marketing the business of the data controller, activity, goods or services and promoting public relations in connection with that business or activity, or those goods or services.

Data subjects are:
Customers and clients
Complainants, correspondents and enquirers
Advisers, consultants and other professional experts

Data classes are:
Personal Details
Family, Lifestyle and Social Circumstances
Goods or Services Provided

Sources (S) and Disclosures (D)(1984 Act). Recipients (1998 Act):
Data subjects themselves
Business associates and other professional advisers
Suppliers, providers of goods or services

Transfers:
None outside the European Economic Area
Purpose 3
Accounts & Records

Purpose Description:
Keeping accounts related to any business or other activity carried on by the data controller, or deciding whether to accept any person as a customer or supplier, or keeping records of purchases, sales or other transactions for the purpose of ensuring that the requisite payments and deliveries are made or services provided by him or to him in respect of those transactions, or for the purpose of making financial or management forecasts to assist him in the conduct of any such business or activity

Data subjects are:
Customers and clients
Suppliers
Complainants, correspondents and enquirers

Data classes are:
Personal Details
Financial Details
Goods or Services Provided

Sources (S) and Disclosures (D)(1984 Act). Recipients (1998 Act):
Business associates and other professional advisers
Employees and agents of the data controller
Other companies in the same group as the data controller
Suppliers, providers of goods or services
Financial organisations and advisers
Credit reference agencies
Debt collection and tracing agencies
Central Government

Transfers:
None outside the European Economic Area


Statement of exempt processing:
This data controller also processes personal data which is exempt from notification


Copyright in this copy is owned by the Information Commissioner. Data Controllers may take copies of their own register entries. Apart from that no part of it may be copied unless allowed under the Copyright Designs and Patent Act 1988.



© Copyright


"Parking Protection"
Company ID Z9667339
(you can use the ID to bring up their DP registration)

One of their data subject classes is
"Offenders and suspected offenders"

OFFENDERS ??? WTF ??

Oh and it looks like they may sell personal data as well...

Will post their full entry in a follow on post to avoid making this one way to big

This post has been edited by bama: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 - 19:57


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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bama
post Tue, 24 Jul 2007 - 19:59
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Entry for Parking Protection Services Ltd:-

Data Protection Register - Entry Details




Registration Number: Z9667339

Date Registered: 10 November 2006 Registration Expires: 09 November 2007

Data Controller: PARKING PROTECTION SERVICES LTD

Address:
SUITE 14
34-35 WILBURY WAY
HITCHIN
SG4 0TW

This register entry describes, in very general terms, the personal data being processed by:
PARKING PROTECTION SERVICES LTD

This register entry contains personal data held for 3 purpose(s)
Purpose 1
Private Investigation

Purpose Description:
The provision on a commercial basis of investigatory services according to instruction given by clients.

Data subjects are:
Customers and clients
Relatives, guardians and associates of the data subject
Advisers, consultants and other professional experts
BUSINESS OR OTHER CONTACTS
WITNESSES
SUBJECTS OF INVESTIGATIONS

Data classes are:
Personal Details
Family, Lifestyle and Social Circumstances
Employment Details
Financial Details
CONTACT DETAILS
INVESTIGATION BRIEF
INFORMATION RELEVANT TO THE INVESTIGATION
RESULTS OF INVESTIGATION

Sources (S) and Disclosures (D)(1984 Act). Recipients (1998 Act):

Data subjects themselves
Business associates and other professional advisers
Suppliers, providers of goods or services
Credit reference agencies
Debt collection and tracing agencies
Police forces
Private investigators

Transfers:
None outside the European Economic Area
Purpose 2
Debt Administration and Factoring

Purpose Description:
The tracing of consumer and commercial debtors and the collection on behalf of creditors. The purchasing of trade debts, including rentals and instalment credit payments, from business.

Data subjects are:
Customers and clients
Relatives, guardians and associates of the data subject

Data classes are:
Personal Details
Financial Details
Goods or Services Provided
Offences (Including Alleged Offences)

Sources (S) and Disclosures (D)(1984 Act). Recipients (1998 Act):
COURTS / TRIBUNALS
Data subjects themselves
Relatives, guardians or other persons associated with the data subject
Current, past or prospective employers of the data subject
Business associates and other professional advisers
Other companies in the same group as the data controller
Suppliers, providers of goods or services
Financial organisations and advisers
Credit reference agencies
Debt collection and tracing agencies
Traders in personal data
Central Government

Transfers:
None outside the European Economic Area
Purpose 3
Method 2

Data Controllers further description of Purpose:
PARKING ENFORCEMENT SERVICES

Data subjects are:
Staff including volunteers, agents, temporary and casual workers
Customers and clients
Suppliers
Relatives, guardians and associates of the data subject
Students and pupils
Offenders and suspected offenders

Data classes are:
Personal Details
Education and Training Details
Employment Details
Financial Details
Goods or Services Provided
Racial or Ethnic Origin

Sources (S) and Disclosures (D)(1984 Act). Recipients (1998 Act):
Data subjects themselves
Current, past or prospective employers of the data subject
Employees and agents of the data controller
Suppliers, providers of goods or services
Credit reference agencies
Debt collection and tracing agencies
Survey and research organisations
Private investigators

Transfers:
None


Copyright in this copy is owned by the Information Commissioner. Data Controllers may take copies of their own register entries. Apart from that no part of it may be copied unless allowed under the Copyright Designs and Patent Act 1988.



© Copyright


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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