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Went to Court today: Blue badge holder vs. Parking co, Judge adjourned case - Help needed writing Defence
tld2004
post Mon, 4 Jun 2018 - 12:39
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Hi All

I attended Court today as a McKenzie friend for family friend vs parking co. Just want to provide a summary of events as I think its helpful for others.

To cut a long story short, family friend received a PCN from parking co last year whilst collecting daughter from daughters property. The driver is disabled and parked outside door to property displaying her blue badge in window as no disabled parking pays on site. Pictures from PCN show disabled badge on display.

Parking co got keeper details from DVLA, all the letters followed addressed to Keeper (not the driver at time), parking co filed Claim at Court. Family friend did not file defence etc (they are elderly and found it overwhelming so kept it quiet etc) but asked Judge in the DQ to set case in the aside due to driver being disabled and only being there to collect daughter. The claim proceeded to Court.

I only found out about this Court date yesterday(!) as the Keeper didn't really understand the paperwork/process. I offered to be McKenzie friend, looked over the paperwork etc and went to Court this morning.

We provided lease doc which does not state the parking co are instructed to patrol the site, said driver is disabled, and no disabled parking on site. Parking co seemed to think that they are instructed and showed a one page 'contract' between themselves and managing agent (not landowner). Judge queried chain of contracts. Judge asked why land (and 'contract') not providing for disabled drivers. Parking co said it didn't need to provide disabled parking as it was private land. She disagreed.

PCN photos also show other vehicles in background parked in similar location as the driver did, and Judge asked parking co if they were ticketed. Parking co said 'no' as they are excluded. Judge queried that adjustments clearly made on private land for maintenance vehicles, but not disabled.

Judge authorised defendant to file formal defence asap stating breach of Equality Act.

This post has been edited by tld2004: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 - 11:08
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post Mon, 4 Jun 2018 - 12:39
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tld2004
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:15
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Any recommendations for how to prepare for this hearing?

Other than taking previous paperwork and a copy of the costs order that I filed at Court, I'm not sure what to expect.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 01:18
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If you are not sure what to expect, read some completed cases on here.

Or search MSE forum for the keywords another one bites the dust which I type under every court win, and will show you loads and loads of tips and outcomes and court reports.

And on here, MST just posted his experience and tips, as he just won.
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tld2004
post Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 18:21
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Hi All

Despite the Judge agreeing to our costs order and issuing a Court Order ordering the private parking co to pay us costs, they have not paid it.

The Court have referred us to EX321 leaflet.

What are people’s thoughts here, when private parking co doesn’t pay costs they have been ordered to?

Worth taking this further, and if so, via what route?

Thanks
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Jlc
post Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 18:51
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How much do they owe you?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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tld2004
post Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 19:41
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Just under £400
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Umkomaas
post Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 21:18
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By when were they told to pay you?
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Ollyfrog
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 00:45
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As at 31/10/18 they had £26,435 in fixed tangible assets and £176,560 cash at bank and in hand.

The fixed assets will probably include things they say they can't do without for their business like computers and the 2 directors' (Keith & Michelle) vehicles, which presumably they will say are necessary for site visits. From GSV the registered office appears to be a shed/lock-up in somebody's back garden so again, I wouldn't hold out much hope of there being anything in there worth having (although of course, the registered office is not necessarily theirs either, it could be a relative or just a "drop" address, indeed they may not have a physical office at all).

Although on balance the third-party debt order might give you a better chance of success, for that you'll need to find out who they bank with. Anyone else with a LPS charge that could say they wanted to pay by bank transfer?

Sorry I can't give you any certainty, but hopefully this info might help inform your decision.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:49
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Indeed, if you can find out what bank account they have for paying in, you can order it to be frozen

A warrant of control might be fun, either way
By the time fees are added, you will be at the £600 threshold to trigger High Court enforcement, which means they can break into premises and retrieve goods. They CAN at this point remove items sucha s computer that they claim are essential to the business - anythign is fair game, including vehicles.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:05
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Its easy to get to a purchase price of circa the £1600 in computer kit, the NtK printing machine (oh the irony) would cover it.


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Council PCN's
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emanresu
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:19
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QUOTE
which means they can break into premises and retrieve goods


You might want to check that.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:43
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:49) *
Indeed, if you can find out what bank account they have for paying in, you can order it to be frozen

Can he? How so?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:47
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:43) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:49) *
Indeed, if you can find out what bank account they have for paying in, you can order it to be frozen

Can he? How so?

with a third party debt order against the relevant bank, see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...arty-debt-order


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Albert Ross
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:55
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Except that payments are taken through a third party company. Paymypcn.

Slim chance of finding account numbers.





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Ollyfrog
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 11:27
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IIUC you only need the name of the bank, not the actual account number(s). Nonetheless if somebody were to write them a cheque for say £10, payable to them at their registered office, I'm sure the greedy so-and-so's would cash it, then just ask your bank for a copy of the cheque and all the details should be there wink.gif

This post has been edited by Ollyfrog: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 11:28
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Glacier2
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 11:36
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That's worth a shot.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 13:54
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:47) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:43) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:49) *
Indeed, if you can find out what bank account they have for paying in, you can order it to be frozen

Can he? How so?

with a third party debt order against the relevant bank, see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...arty-debt-order

Yes, I’m aware of third party debt orders. Not quite “you can order it to be frozen” though - that’s more Mareva type relief, which is hardly appropriate here.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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tld2004
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 18:27
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They were told to pay mid February 2019.

Any time limits I should be aware of re: needing to take action by?

This post has been edited by tld2004: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 18:32
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henrik777
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 20:16
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First thing i'd do is ask.

I know it's popular to hang them/torture them/rape them but if i was considering further action i'd firstly give them a ring to see what's what. What's the harm in being reasonable ? (that's not to say wait forever just a polite enquiry, after all you really just want paid, don't you ?)
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 23:44
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QUOTE (henrik777 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 20:16) *
First thing i'd do is ask.

I know it's popular to hang them/torture them/rape them but if i was considering further action i'd firstly give them a ring to see what's what. What's the harm in being reasonable ? (that's not to say wait forever just a polite enquiry, after all you really just want paid, don't you ?)

Personally if that doesn't work I'd just go for a bailiff warrant. There's been a few cases like this on those bailiff programmes on TV, they rock up at the fancy head office of some private parking company and the guy from finance just pays, no fuss.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 13:54) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:47) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 10:43) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 09:49) *
Indeed, if you can find out what bank account they have for paying in, you can order it to be frozen

Can he? How so?

with a third party debt order against the relevant bank, see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...arty-debt-order

Yes, I’m aware of third party debt orders. Not quite “you can order it to be frozen” though - that’s more Mareva type relief, which is hardly appropriate here.

But the effect of the interim order is to freeze funds in the account up to the value of the debt, I think we can take it as read that that's what nosferatu1001 intended.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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chapinahat
post Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 08:25
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Hi

Warn them you'll be submtting a winding up order using form SD1.

Give them notice of two weeks. It's an action specific against limited companies. As far as I am aware no fee.

You can do this concurrently with asking courts to recover the debt.

Form is very straightforward. Send a copy with their name filled in with the notice. Send one to all directors.

Include who and how to pay.

ATB
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