MS90 speeding and stat dec where I was not driving vehicle at time |
MS90 speeding and stat dec where I was not driving vehicle at time |
Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:34
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,307 |
Dear Foum
1) A speeding ticket committed last May 2018. I Had lent my car out 2)I moved address to leeds before NIP arrived. Speed happened in Peterborough 3)Months down the line I noticed MS90 on my lisence and 811 fine 4)I put in stat dec at leeds maj and pleaded not guilty to both 5)Court referred to original court of Peterborough Maj for 19/02/19 I am not sure what to do when I arrive at court as I did not receive paper work. I changed address on lisence and V5C but no mail still did not go to right address. Car has been scrapped now. I have name of driver at the time. What should I do to proceed at court? Should I just say I was driving as my plea as if I find me guilty of MS90 then they will give me MS90? I was not driving at the time. Could I send in a letter with my pleas and circumstances around the incident to reopen case and could they deal in my absence? |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:34
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:44
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
Should I just say I was driving as my plea as if I find me guilty of MS90 then they will give me MS90? I was not driving at the time. Seriously? Committing perjury isn't a a smart way to go, You will need to defend it on the facts. When did you update the RK address? |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:28
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Who was driving is now irrelevant. What is clear is that you weren't driving.
The only charge you need to defend is the s172 (failing to furnish). They will have used the details from the DVLA shortly after the alleged offence to write to keeper's last known address. It takes time for the DVLA to make the changes so it may have been in that gap, assuming you promptly notified them of the change. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:40
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,307 |
So if I didn't notify change straight away coz I don't think I did. Will this mean I don't have a leg to stand on. Wil I get done with 6 points? Can they check from day of court that addresses were not updated promptly. The vehicle has now been scrapped.
So I will still get 6 points for failure to notify? |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:52
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Instead of us guessing, how long after you moved did the alleged speeding offence occur? A few days your in a good position, a few months, lousy.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:56
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
So I will still get 6 points for failure to notify? If convicted, yes. Also, if you go to trial you will be liable for prosecution costs - possibly £600+ -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:18
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#7
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,307 |
Instead of us guessing, how long after you moved did the alleged speeding offence occur? A few days your in a good position, a few months, lousy. I moved within a month So I will still get 6 points for failure to notify? If convicted, yes. Also, if you go to trial you will be liable for prosecution costs - possibly £600+ So when I got to court this time. And plead not guilty to both there be 3rd date for trial? I thought they reset the speeding ticket so I have to fill out a new nip and fill out who was driving at the time? |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:40
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Instead of us guessing, how long after you moved did the alleged speeding offence occur? A few days your in a good position, a few months, lousy. I moved within a month Just to be clear, the speeding event occurred and within a month (how long exactly?) you had moved? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:42
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 15 May 2012 Member No.: 54,933 |
I think we need:
Date of offence Date you moved house Date you notified DVLA of house move Date NIP was sent |
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Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:50
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
So when I got to court this time. And plead not guilty to both there be 3rd date for trial? I thought they reset the speeding ticket so I have to fill out a new nip and fill out who was driving at the time? No, only the court proceedings start again. It appears from what you say that the s 172 notice was lawfully served on you at your last known address. You would only have a defence if you could show that it was not reasonably practicable for you to respond to the notice. It is a matter for the court to decide whether it was possible or not. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:24
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,307 |
I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it. So as I have to attend the court where the original offence took place should I get there early and try to find the prosecutor and tell him that I would like to plead guilty to speeding if they drop the s172? Or will they try to do me for faliure to notify?
This post has been edited by Mas1984: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:25 |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:37
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it. Be very careful, fair enough if you thought the first version was beneficial to you and are now correcting it. We have a whole thread in the press articles forum dedicated to those sentenced to jail time for perverting the course of justice to try and get off a minor motoring offence. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:27
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,307 |
I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it. Be very careful, fair enough if you thought the first version was beneficial to you and are now correcting it. We have a whole thread in the press articles forum dedicated to those sentenced to jail time for perverting the course of justice to try and get off a minor motoring offence. Technically they do not know who was driving the car at the time so i have not given no details of events. On stat dec day I pleaded not NG to both. So the next date should I make a deal with the prosecutor to plead guilty for speeding but ng for s172? Can I do this by sending my plea in or do I have to be present? |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:36
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
I Had lent my car out I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it. IMHO you're playing with fire. Especuially having posted on a public forum. But yes, if you've suddenly remembered you were the driver you can do a deal with the prosecutor. This post has been edited by peterguk: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:40 -------------------- |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:53
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 634 Joined: 8 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,778 |
Alternatively give us the dates mentioned and the people here can give you a view on the likely success of any defence of it being outside of your control not to respond.
Was the person you thought you lent the car to insured to drive it, how are you connected? If you can show you had nothing to gain by not replying it can help. |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:56
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Technically they do not know who was driving the car at the time What they know is irrelevant to the issue in question, it would only be relevant as to what could be proven against you. My advice to you is that if you were not the driver then stating that you were (perhaps by pleading to guilty to the speeding offence) is likely to amount to an offence of perverting the course of public justice. This is a serious offence that almost inevitably carries a custodial sentence. Nobody here will assist you in commitan offence. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 13:35
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#17
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 6 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,307 |
I pleaded ng at the stat dec. The second court date is about to arise in a couple of weeks. So I was the driver at the time will I be able to enter my plea by post ng to s172 but guilty to speeding?
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 13:49
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: 16 Jun 2010 From: sw11 Member No.: 38,303 |
I really don't think you are getting the clear message.
-------------------- PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.
You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already. |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 17:15
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Other arguments aside, if you plead guilty to the speeding by post you risk them progressing the S172 regardless, you have to do the deal on the day with the prosecutor, ideally in advance of the hearing.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 17:31
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Yes
There's a notorious thread where the OP pleaded Guilty to the speeding without a deal and relied on the good nature of the prosecutor When the hearing started, the prosecutor thanked him for the Guilty plea and asked the court to defer sentencing until the more serious charge had been heard |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 09:40 |