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MS90 speeding and stat dec where I was not driving vehicle at time
Mas1984
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:34
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Dear Foum

1) A speeding ticket committed last May 2018. I Had lent my car out
2)I moved address to leeds before NIP arrived. Speed happened in Peterborough
3)Months down the line I noticed MS90 on my lisence and 811 fine
4)I put in stat dec at leeds maj and pleaded not guilty to both
5)Court referred to original court of Peterborough Maj for 19/02/19

I am not sure what to do when I arrive at court as I did not receive paper work. I changed address on lisence and V5C but no mail still did not go to right address. Car has been scrapped now. I have name of driver at the time. What should I do to proceed at court? Should I just say I was driving as my plea as if I find me guilty of MS90 then they will give me MS90? I was not driving at the time. Could I send in a letter with my pleas and circumstances around the incident to reopen case and could they deal in my absence?

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post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:34
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:44
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QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:34) *
Should I just say I was driving as my plea as if I find me guilty of MS90 then they will give me MS90? I was not driving at the time.

Seriously? Committing perjury isn't a a smart way to go, You will need to defend it on the facts.

When did you update the RK address?
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Jlc
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:28
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Who was driving is now irrelevant. What is clear is that you weren't driving.

The only charge you need to defend is the s172 (failing to furnish).

They will have used the details from the DVLA shortly after the alleged offence to write to keeper's last known address. It takes time for the DVLA to make the changes so it may have been in that gap, assuming you promptly notified them of the change.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mas1984
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:40
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So if I didn't notify change straight away coz I don't think I did. Will this mean I don't have a leg to stand on. Wil I get done with 6 points? Can they check from day of court that addresses were not updated promptly. The vehicle has now been scrapped.

So I will still get 6 points for failure to notify?
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The Rookie
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:52
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Instead of us guessing, how long after you moved did the alleged speeding offence occur? A few days your in a good position, a few months, lousy.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Jlc
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:56
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QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:40) *
So I will still get 6 points for failure to notify?

If convicted, yes. Also, if you go to trial you will be liable for prosecution costs - possibly £600+


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mas1984
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:18
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:52) *
Instead of us guessing, how long after you moved did the alleged speeding offence occur? A few days your in a good position, a few months, lousy.

I moved within a month

QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:56) *
QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:40) *
So I will still get 6 points for failure to notify?

If convicted, yes. Also, if you go to trial you will be liable for prosecution costs - possibly £600+

So when I got to court this time. And plead not guilty to both there be 3rd date for trial? I thought they reset the speeding ticket so I have to fill out a new nip and fill out who was driving at the time?
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The Rookie
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:40
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QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:18) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 13:52) *
Instead of us guessing, how long after you moved did the alleged speeding offence occur? A few days your in a good position, a few months, lousy.

I moved within a month

Just to be clear, the speeding event occurred and within a month (how long exactly?) you had moved?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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mynamegoesinhere
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:42
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I think we need:
Date of offence
Date you moved house
Date you notified DVLA of house move
Date NIP was sent
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southpaw82
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:50
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QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 14:18) *
So when I got to court this time. And plead not guilty to both there be 3rd date for trial? I thought they reset the speeding ticket so I have to fill out a new nip and fill out who was driving at the time?

No, only the court proceedings start again. It appears from what you say that the s 172 notice was lawfully served on you at your last known address. You would only have a defence if you could show that it was not reasonably practicable for you to respond to the notice. It is a matter for the court to decide whether it was possible or not.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Mas1984
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:24
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I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it. So as I have to attend the court where the original offence took place should I get there early and try to find the prosecutor and tell him that I would like to plead guilty to speeding if they drop the s172? Or will they try to do me for faliure to notify?

This post has been edited by Mas1984: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:25
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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:37
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QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:24) *
I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it.

Be very careful, fair enough if you thought the first version was beneficial to you and are now correcting it.

We have a whole thread in the press articles forum dedicated to those sentenced to jail time for perverting the course of justice to try and get off a minor motoring offence.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Mas1984
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:27
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:37) *
QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:24) *
I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it.

Be very careful, fair enough if you thought the first version was beneficial to you and are now correcting it.

We have a whole thread in the press articles forum dedicated to those sentenced to jail time for perverting the course of justice to try and get off a minor motoring offence.

Technically they do not know who was driving the car at the time so i have not given no details of events. On stat dec day I pleaded not NG to both. So the next date should I make a deal with the prosecutor to plead guilty for speeding but ng for s172? Can I do this by sending my plea in or do I have to be present?
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peterguk
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:36
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QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 12:34) *
I Had lent my car out


QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 04:24) *
I think i was driving the vehicle at the time coming to think of it.


IMHO you're playing with fire. Especuially having posted on a public forum.

But yes, if you've suddenly remembered you were the driver you can do a deal with the prosecutor.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:40


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disgrunt
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:53
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Alternatively give us the dates mentioned and the people here can give you a view on the likely success of any defence of it being outside of your control not to respond.

Was the person you thought you lent the car to insured to drive it, how are you connected? If you can show you had nothing to gain by not replying it can help.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:56
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QUOTE (Mas1984 @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:27) *
Technically they do not know who was driving the car at the time

What they know is irrelevant to the issue in question, it would only be relevant as to what could be proven against you. My advice to you is that if you were not the driver then stating that you were (perhaps by pleading to guilty to the speeding offence) is likely to amount to an offence of perverting the course of public justice. This is a serious offence that almost inevitably carries a custodial sentence. Nobody here will assist you in commitan offence.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Mas1984
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 13:35
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I pleaded ng at the stat dec. The second court date is about to arise in a couple of weeks. So I was the driver at the time will I be able to enter my plea by post ng to s172 but guilty to speeding?
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Irksome
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 13:49
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I really don't think you are getting the clear message.


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PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.

You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 17:15
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Other arguments aside, if you plead guilty to the speeding by post you risk them progressing the S172 regardless, you have to do the deal on the day with the prosecutor, ideally in advance of the hearing.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Redivi
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 17:31
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Yes

There's a notorious thread where the OP pleaded Guilty to the speeding without a deal and relied on the good nature of the prosecutor

When the hearing started, the prosecutor thanked him for the Guilty plea and asked the court to defer sentencing until the more serious charge had been heard
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