Turning a public highway into private parking Options

[cp8759]

Spin off of this thread: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=136559

Back in 2008 it very much looked like a road to which the public have access: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5895919,-0....3312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5896835,-0....3312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5896835,-0....3312!8i6656

There was a yellow sign attached to the wall, but it it would be odd if that applied right up to where the "private" restrictions start now.

In 2012 a nice white line is added, presumably to indicate the border between the public highway and the "private" bit: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5896782,-0....3312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5896782,-0....3312!8i6656

By 2014, the "private" bit has expended to here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5896027,-0....3312!8i6656

Surely if the road is a section 142 road, it remains one unless the council makes a stopping up order. Surely it can't be lawful to turn a public highway into private off-street parking in this way? Thoughts?

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[The Rookie]

IF the road was an s142 road then yes....without knowing a bit more about the location and it's hard to say, are there separate owners and therefore a stepped introduction? A limitation placed by planning consent that's now timed out?

[Mad Mick V]

Housing estate with an off street order?

It looks like Wing Parking control things so we definitely have estate parking.

Mick

[cp8759]

But it's not an off-street car park with off-street statutory PCNs, it's Wing private parking invoices. If the road was ever a s142 road (which it appeared to be in 2008) I don't think this setup is legal. After all, if they can do it on this road, why not on any other road, or even every road?

[Mad Mick V]

Surely we are talking about Moselle Close being the estate road not Miles Road where the PCN was given?

Mick

[cp8759]

Surely we are talking about Moselle Close being the estate road not Miles Road where the PCN was given?

Miles Road 2008: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5895919,-0....3312!8i6656
Miles Road 2019: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5895995,-0....6384!8i8192

Spot the difference. The PCN in the thread was given prior to the start of the "private" bit of Miles Road, my point is if Miles Road was a s142 road before how can it now be "private"?

[Mad Mick V]

Exactly, the start of the estate road was Moselle Close, now it's a block further back presumably to take in the new builds on the right.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5900408,-0....6384!8i8192


Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 - 19:19

[PASTMYBEST]

How does the order define it ?

[cp8759]

How does the order define it ?

The private parking section will be governed entirly by contract law, no order required. I was however thinking of asking for all the orders (speed & parking) for Miles Road.

[PASTMYBEST]

How does the order define it ?

The private parking section will be governed entirly by contract law, no order required. I was however thinking of asking for all the orders (speed & parking) for Miles Road.

There are yellow lines all over the place s there must be TMO's and is it private parking or wing on behalf of the council, because what is not seen are signs laying out a contract

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 - 23:50

[The Rookie]

I guess key questions to ask the council are
1/ Is it, or ever has been, 'adopted'?
2/ Is there a stopping up order?
3/ Are there or has there ever been a TMO?

[cp8759]

There are yellow lines all over the place s there must be TMO's and is it private parking or wing on behalf of the council, because what is not seen are signs laying out a contract

Can't be statutory as the penalty is £100

I guess key questions to ask the council are
1/ Is it, or ever has been, 'adopted'?
2/ Is there a stopping up order?
3/ Are there or has there ever been a TMO?

I've asked for all traffic orders (waiting, parking and speed) & stopping up orders for both Miles Road and Moselle Close, I'll post an update when I get them back. As PMB says, there must be something as part of Miles Road is subject to statutory enforcement.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 - 23:11

[The Rookie]

there must be something as part of Miles Road is subject to statutory enforcement.

I agree as we know from the triggering thread! (unless that PCN shouldn't have ever been issued of course!)

[cp8759]

So the council only sent me the borough-wide 20 mph TRO, I asked for an internal review and this was the response:

I have discussed your request with the service regarding the Traffic Management Order and have been advised that the document that you received is indeed the only traffic management order that we have relating to this road. We have therefore complied with your request to provide information we have on record.

So the solution is just park on the statutory DYLs, as they're only decorative.

[phantomcrusader]

If I've understood correctly, the council considers the land to be "off street" (not public highway) and then they have engaged a private contractor to enforce under contract law? If so, the council should have paid attention to the attached DfT letter/direction.

[cp8759]

That's a very handy letter, quite a few councils in London use contract law to enforce estate parking.

[phantomcrusader]

That's a very handy letter, quite a few councils in London use contract law to enforce estate parking.

Paragraph 3 and the final paragraph may help you in your fight against Oxford City Council enforcing their off street car parks under the RTRA 1984.

It's absurd that they continue to enforce their off street car parks under criminal law when the area has been designated by law as a civil enforcement area for parking contraventions.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2650/article/3/made

and 8(4)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedule/8

This post has been edited by phantomcrusader: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 - 22:37

[cp8759]

That's a very handy letter, quite a few councils in London use contract law to enforce estate parking.

Paragraph 3 and the final paragraph may help you in your fight against Oxford City Council enforcing their off street car parks under the RTRA 1984.

Good idea, I'm going to use it for that.