Southwark Council 32D |
Southwark Council 32D |
Wed, 26 Jun 2019 - 14:59
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,479 |
So I received a PCN today from Southwark Council for a 32d - Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign.
I turned right into the road but did a U-Turn before heading back down the street having realised I was in the wrong place. I didn't realise it was one way and the only signage to indicate this was the small blue one at the beginning of the street. I'm tempted to argue inadequate signage but do you think its correct grounds for appeal and I would be successful? |
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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 - 14:59
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Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 09:12
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,479 |
Just a quick bump
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Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 12:26
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Just a quick bump check back tonight I will do a draft later this evening -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 21:18
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Representations against the imposition of PCN number xxxxxxxxxx
Vehicle registration mark AA23BCD (Your details) I make this representation under the statutory ground at 1(4)(b) of schedule 1 of the 2003 act that there was no contravention of a prescribed order. Regulation 18 of the Local authorities traffic orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 requires that signage must be in place to convey the restriction. As is clear from the video there are no signs alerting me to the contravention cited upon the face of the PCN. Absent any signs I cannot be held to have committed the said contravention. I cite in support of this reasoning london Tribunals case reference 2170429213 Appeal allowed Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner. Reasons This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign (proceeding in the wrong direction). The location was Rushmead and the alleged contravention occurred at 12.24pm on 22 June 2017. I have looked at the CCTV footage and still images submitted by the Council. These show that there was a blue sign attached to a post on each side of the road at the junction from which vehicle registration K33YVS exited. The driver of the car would not have seen these signs as they were facing in the opposite direction from the one in which the car was being driven. There is no evidence that the car was driven past any blue sign visible to the driver. It would appear that the car may have been driven through a No Entry sign at the entrance to Rushmead. However, a No Entry restriction is not the same as the restriction conveyed by the arrow on a blue sign. It follows that the PCN was issued for the wrong alleged contravention. A driver cannot fail to comply with a sign that cannot be seen. Given the circumstances the council should cancel this PCN and I look forward to confirmation that this has been done at your soonest convenience -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 19 Jul 2019 - 10:13
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,479 |
Thank you so much past my best. All submitted online so fingers crossed, I will keep this thread updated for reference
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Fri, 19 Jul 2019 - 12:59
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Thank you so much past my best. All submitted online so fingers crossed, I will keep this thread updated for reference Don't expect the council to accept , but they will likely mess up the response and make your case stronger -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 12:38
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,479 |
A RESPONSE!!!
So as expected, appeal rejected, I have attached their response. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-JqY4k9Kz...9baBHplaaYJ1jVC https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-PoGWghBS...GMvnqyDAuYxXnTe https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-Qbw7yuIC...wTX-17OjjJcN57I https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-RJml4IwP...Mp_GjcEAeq-PyYS https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-TdsOrOog...IC5fxuqq03EVtux https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-W3ym5B5C...agYphPz23IWZYmC https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-dnyUf7WD...EbQ2Vpi9_725cYs They have been to the location and taken some photos as evidence (what a waste of time). The only photo that could show the contravention is on the left in row 2, the round blue sign with the van to the left but as per the video the van is obstructing the signage on the day the contravention was alleged to have taken place. What do you guys think and is it worth taking it further? |
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Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 13:24
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Evidence of you turning left????????
none if the signs could be seen the arrow on the road is advisory only What do you intend pay or appeal? -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 15:11
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,479 |
I guess that depends on what you suspect my chances of success are with an appeal.
I accept that I did wrong in the 1st place by making a U-Turn in the road but there is no evidence to prove this so I feel like I should appeal because they are just trying it on |
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Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:30
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I guess that depends on what you suspect my chances of success are with an appeal. I accept that I did wrong in the 1st place by making a U-Turn in the road but there is no evidence to prove this so I feel like I should appeal because they are just trying it on Got to be your choice. The way I look at it is this. You are walking about with £65 in your pocket that belongs to the council, and they want it. But they must now give you a double or quits bet first. If you save the cost of a cup of coffee a week between now and when you would have to pay you would save the difference. You say you know you did wrong, and yes you made a mistake, but really the mistake you made is not the one they are claiming. Well it is but even then an argument that the sign you contravened is not a s36 sign could have been be made and did win a couple of years ago but the contravention is for the council to prove not for you to disprove. The councils assumption is not enough -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 22:08
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I think there's a serious failure to consider by the council. There is no evidence you performed a prohibited turn, and that is not what the PCN accuses you of anyway. An adjudicator could allow an appeal based on that.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 6 Aug 2019 - 10:33
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,479 |
Thank you both for your responses, I am going to appeal as I strongly believe the council are in the wrong here.
Is there any benefit to me by attending the hearing in person or are my chances as strong by submitting the evidence online? |
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Tue, 6 Aug 2019 - 11:03
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Thank you both for your responses, I am going to appeal as I strongly believe the council are in the wrong here. Is there any benefit to me by attending the hearing in person or are my chances as strong by submitting the evidence online? In this case on the papers, you do not want the adjudicator to ask how you got there -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 10:58
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,479 |
Tribunal date set for the 14th September, at this rate it would be Christmas before I had to pay it
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Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 15:38
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Tribunal date set for the 14th September, at this rate it would be Christmas before I had to pay it what have you sent to the tribunal ? -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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