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Permit area or not?, Am I ok to park
Dog7797
post Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 10:45
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My friend lives on barker street, Newcastle at the globe. It states that they own 3 permit parking spaces. Outside of the building is the area of the 3 spaces, pavement then starts which fits at least 3 cars on before a yellow line starts. I usually park here as because there’s no yellow lines I believe I can park here?
The company have now emailed saying the ground directly infront of the building is owned by them and is permit only and that the UKCPS will be patrolling.
I’m just wondering if people think this will just be the 3 spaces that on the website they claim come with the building, or the full area?
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post Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 10:45
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stamfordman
post Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 11:46
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I have asked for a move to the flame pit as it's not a case.

It also looks like a private parking issue not council.

Surely the obvious thing to do is ask the managing agent if applicable.
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KH_
post Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 16:55
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Is it where the cars are parked here?

Looks like a road to me, others will know more than me on the parking stuff though.

This post has been edited by KH_: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 16:55
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The Rookie
post Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 09:44
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 17:55) *
Looks like a road to me

With lots of obvious PPC notices it looks like private land.


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cp8759
post Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 19:52
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 10:44) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 17:55) *
Looks like a road to me

With lots of obvious PPC notices it looks like private land.

The test is not whether there are notices, the test is whether the public has unfettered access. Where the mini is parked looks like a road to which the public has access, there's quite a good explanation given in Nisha Patel v London Borough of Hounslow (2190096099, 13 April 2019):

QUOTE
In respect of Mrs Patel’s other grounds of appeal, I would have been minded to find
that Norwood Road is a road to which the public have access, within the meaning
of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, in reliance on the principles contained in
DPP v. Vivier [1991] R.T.R. 205, supported by Andrew Barsby, Private Roads: The
Legal Framework (5th ed.), 2013, para 1-21 and Halsbury's Laws of England -
Highways, Streets and Bridges, Volume 55, 2012, para 1. With respect, the case of
Dawood, R (on the application of) v The Parking Adjudicator & Anor [2009J EWCA
Civ 1411, which was a renewed application for permission to appeal at which the
respondent was not represented, is not a ‘leading authority’ and, in any event, did
not support the ultimate proposition put forward by Mrs Patel. The very nature of
Norwood Road leading, as it does, to a service station open to the public, indicates
that it is a road to which the public have access. Even on the EA’s interpretation of
the Order, pedestrians and cyclists would have been able to use the road for their
own purposes and as members of the public, not as bare licensees of the
occupiers of the land at the other end of the road. That the road may or may not be
privately owned is not inconsistent with it being a road to which the public have
access. The fact that Mrs Patel herself used the road four times (and did not assert
that she did so as a bare licensee of the occupiers of the land) rather suggests that
she did so as a member of the public.


I think the land owner would be hard pressed to show that that particular bit of land is land where people may only pass or re-pass with the consent of the land owner. This https://www.google.com/maps/place/Barker+St...33;4d-1.6006406 looks like a council street light and the council would probably say that that street light (and the pavement it is installed upon) is on a section of road that is open to the public as of right.

The same does not necessarily apply to the parking bays further down Wesley Street, but it might, you'd have to check if Wesley Street has been passable without restriction for over 20 years.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 19:55


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big_mac
post Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 22:26
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 20:52) *
The same does not necessarily apply to the parking bays further down Wesley Street, but it might, you'd have to check if Wesley Street has been passable without restriction for over 20 years.

It was a car park 2001 - 2010, prior to the flats being built.
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This post has been edited by big_mac: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 22:27
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cp8759
post Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 10:26
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That also shows that there were yellow lines covering the sport where the red and black mini can be seen on GSV, so that section of road must be under local authority control and you can park there as much as you like now that the waiting restriction has been removed.

I wonder if they stop up the rest of Wesley Street once a year? If not, it will be deemed a public highway in a few years.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 10:27


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KH_
post Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 17:13
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 10:44) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 17:55) *
Looks like a road to me

With lots of obvious PPC notices it looks like private land.


I had a check of Land Registry maps at work today; the road up to the end of the wall looks to be owned by someone who may have contracted the PPC, the rest of the road is unregistered and likely to be publicly owned.
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cp8759
post Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 21:34
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 18:13) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 10:44) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 17:55) *
Looks like a road to me

With lots of obvious PPC notices it looks like private land.


I had a check of Land Registry maps at work today; the road up to the end of the wall looks to be owned by someone who may have contracted the PPC, the rest of the road is unregistered and likely to be publicly owned.

Ownership of the land is irrelevant. The land under many roads is privately owned but this doesn't really make any difference to anything.


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KH_
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 00:16
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 22:34) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 18:13) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 23 Sep 2020 - 10:44) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 17:55) *
Looks like a road to me

With lots of obvious PPC notices it looks like private land.


I had a check of Land Registry maps at work today; the road up to the end of the wall looks to be owned by someone who may have contracted the PPC, the rest of the road is unregistered and likely to be publicly owned.

Ownership of the land is irrelevant. The land under many roads is privately owned but this doesn't really make any difference to anything.


As previously noted, although not in this quote, as once again Rookie has chosen to edit a 'quote', I'm no expert.
I've seen numerous times here in the forum that a publicly owned road is unlikely to be authorised for tickets by a PPC

Now, you can get all technical (I'm no expert) but the road beyond the wall is very likely to be an adopted road.
As someone said in the private parking forum duplicate of this topic, check whether it's adopted, I rather suspect it will be
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cp8759
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 13:23
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Whether a road is adopted or not is also strictly speaking irrelevant, though if it is that is likely to rule out the road not being a section 142 road.


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