PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

[NIP Wizard] 2 Speeding Offences become 1?
unfortunatechild
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:26
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 31 May 2019
Member No.: 104,102



NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2019
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A30 Victoria (Under Overbridge)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was caught speeding twice within 40 minutes - the first at A30 Victoria, Cornwall. The second at A30 Meldon Dip, Okehampton, Devon. I've been advised that I may be able to combine these two offences into one offence, wondering if this was actually possible or not and if so would I have to go to court? I really don't want to take this to court (I work a lot - moneys tight). Can I combine them into 1 offence or is it best to just tuck my tail between my legs and deal with it? Oh yeah for reference I was doing 84 & 87 in a 70.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 31 May 2019 20:26:11 +0000

This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:30
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:26
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
southpaw82
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:47
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



I think you’ll really struggle. If they were committed in the same force area then retuning both forms together with a covering letter might see them have some sympathy with you but I’d not be optimistic.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 21:04
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 21:47) *
If they were committed in the same force area then retuning both forms together with a covering letter might see them have some sympathy with you but I’d not be optimistic.

Well as they were both committed in the same force area there's no harm in trying...


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 23:16
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



If the OP didn't drop below the speed limit, she could argue that it's a single offence

The trouble is that most of that distance is dual carriageway with a 70 mph limit and the 40 minutes interval is too long

This post has been edited by Redivi: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:48
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 07:03
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Don't ask, don't get - but it is highly unlikely they'll consider one continuous offence. Best result would be 1 course + 1 £100 3 points fixed penalty. (Otherwise 6 points £200)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 08:12
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



A problem I can see with "continuing offence"

If the OP accepts a COFP for the first event and declines it for the second, the time and likely cost of defending the case will be more taking the course
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 10:14
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 00:16) *
the 40 minutes interval is too long

Ya think?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 13:20
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 11:14) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 00:16) *
the 40 minutes interval is too long

Ya think?

It's about 40 miles from Victoria to Meldon Dip, all dual carriageway

If the OP wants to argue that it's a continuing offence, by definition she couldn't drop below the 70 mph speed limit

If the two incidents are 40 minutes apart, she must have driven below 70 for part of the journey to average 60 mph
If they're less than 35 minutes apart, she may not have

This post has been edited by Redivi: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:49
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
unfortunatechild
post Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 17:58
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 31 May 2019
Member No.: 104,102



Hello everybody
Thanks for your advice!
Think I'm going to just write a covering letter and hope for the best - if it doesn't work, one speeding course and one fine is what I'll probably do.
I don't have time or energy or really care that much to take it to court - I know I'm in the wrong here for speeding.

For those wondering, the two offences were actually 33 minutes apart - not 40.

And for what it's worth, I'm a 'she' smile.gif

This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:00
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:52
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



Noted and corrected
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 21:26
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (unfortunatechild @ Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:58) *
And for what it's worth, I'm a 'she' smile.gif

Unless we are told, we cannot guess so we tend to apply the same principle found here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/6 smile.gif


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
I am Weasel
post Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 09:21
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,423
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
From: Winnersh, UK
Member No.: 27,840



Covering 40 miles at 70MPH would take 34 minutes 17 seconds, so your average speed appears to be marginally over 70MPH, but given that you have been shown to reach 84MPH and 87MPH on two separate occasions, you might be hard pressed to persuade anybody that you did not at any point dip below 70MPH in between these two occasions
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
disgrunt
post Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 15:15
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 634
Joined: 8 Dec 2012
Member No.: 58,778



Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 17:20
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (disgrunt @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 16:15) *
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope

That being said if they play hard-ball, take whatever out of court offer they put forwards. It would not be good mitigation in court to say that your offending behaviour spanned a distance of almost 50 miles.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TryOut
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 07:46
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 601
Joined: 7 May 2019
Member No.: 103,734



QUOTE (disgrunt @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 16:15) *
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope

The only realistic and sensible application of "one" in your post applies to the envelope.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
disgrunt
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 09:18
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 634
Joined: 8 Dec 2012
Member No.: 58,778



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 17:20) *
QUOTE (disgrunt @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 16:15) *
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope

That being said if they play hard-ball, take whatever out of court offer they put forwards. It would not be good mitigation in court to say that your offending behaviour spanned a distance of almost 50 miles.

Agreed. A course and a fixed penalty seems the best way to go for the OP.

QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 07:46) *
QUOTE (disgrunt @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 16:15) *
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope

The only realistic and sensible application of "one" in your post applies to the envelope.

I’m tempted to say crawl back under your bridge, but in order to help the OP I’ll expand my original point.

OP, if you can get the exact location of each camera/ can you can then work out the actual distance and therefore average speed. Assuming it comes out around the 80 mark you can write a polite letter asking them to treat the 2 notices as a single speeding offence on this occasion. I like the analogy of breaking into a house. If a witness saw you through the living room window at 10pm and another witness saw you in an upstairs bedroom at 10:20pm you wouldn’t be charged with 2 counts of burglary.

I can’t see how a polite letter could hurt, (unless of course the office bod who opens it is TryOut or somebody similar).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 12:15
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (disgrunt @ Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 10:18) *
I like the analogy of breaking into a house. If a witness saw you through the living room window at 10pm and another witness saw you in an upstairs bedroom at 10:20pm you wouldn’t be charged with 2 counts of burglary.

Indeed not. But if you came out of the first house and broke into a second forty miles away, you would. But I agree, a polite begging letter will do no harm. However, if the ticket office does not agree to combining the two I would certainly not risk asking a court to do so.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
unfortunatechild
post Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:15
Post #18


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 31 May 2019
Member No.: 104,102



Hi everybody,

Thanks for the further advice. I'm going to write a polite begging letter and include that with the forms, if that doesn't work i'm going to take 3 points + a speeding course as it's really not worth going to court over as I accept that it's my fault for breaking the speed limit.

Thanks again! smile.gif

This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 17:40
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:26
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (unfortunatechild @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 17:15) *
I accept that it's my fault for breaking the speed limit twice.

If you accept that it was not a single continuous offence then you cannot write a letter saying it was, can you?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
unfortunatechild
post Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:40
Post #20


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 31 May 2019
Member No.: 104,102



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 17:26) *
QUOTE (unfortunatechild @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 17:15) *
I accept that it's my fault for breaking the speed limit twice.

If you accept that it was not a single continuous offence then you cannot write a letter saying it was, can you?



Sorry, I meant that as in I got caught by two separate cameras... I'm pretty sure I was consistently driving above the speed limit.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 22:26) *
QUOTE (unfortunatechild @ Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:58) *
And for what it's worth, I'm a 'she' smile.gif

Unless we are told, we cannot guess so we tend to apply the same principle found here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/6 smile.gif



no worries!

This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:39
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 11:16
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here