[NIP Wizard] 2 Speeding Offences become 1? |
[NIP Wizard] 2 Speeding Offences become 1? |
Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:26
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 31 May 2019 Member No.: 104,102 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - May 2019 Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A30 Victoria (Under Overbridge) Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was caught speeding twice within 40 minutes - the first at A30 Victoria, Cornwall. The second at A30 Meldon Dip, Okehampton, Devon. I've been advised that I may be able to combine these two offences into one offence, wondering if this was actually possible or not and if so would I have to go to court? I really don't want to take this to court (I work a lot - moneys tight). Can I combine them into 1 offence or is it best to just tuck my tail between my legs and deal with it? Oh yeah for reference I was doing 84 & 87 in a 70. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 31 May 2019 20:26:11 +0000 This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:30 |
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:26
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:47
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I think you’ll really struggle. If they were committed in the same force area then retuning both forms together with a covering letter might see them have some sympathy with you but I’d not be optimistic.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 21:04
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
If they were committed in the same force area then retuning both forms together with a covering letter might see them have some sympathy with you but I’d not be optimistic. Well as they were both committed in the same force area there's no harm in trying... -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 23:16
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
If the OP didn't drop below the speed limit, she could argue that it's a single offence
The trouble is that most of that distance is dual carriageway with a 70 mph limit and the 40 minutes interval is too long This post has been edited by Redivi: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:48 |
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Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 07:03
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Don't ask, don't get - but it is highly unlikely they'll consider one continuous offence. Best result would be 1 course + 1 £100 3 points fixed penalty. (Otherwise 6 points £200)
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 08:12
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
A problem I can see with "continuing offence"
If the OP accepts a COFP for the first event and declines it for the second, the time and likely cost of defending the case will be more taking the course |
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Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 10:14
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 13:20
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
It's about 40 miles from Victoria to Meldon Dip, all dual carriageway If the OP wants to argue that it's a continuing offence, by definition she couldn't drop below the 70 mph speed limit If the two incidents are 40 minutes apart, she must have driven below 70 for part of the journey to average 60 mph If they're less than 35 minutes apart, she may not have This post has been edited by Redivi: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:49 |
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Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 17:58
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 31 May 2019 Member No.: 104,102 |
Hello everybody
Thanks for your advice! Think I'm going to just write a covering letter and hope for the best - if it doesn't work, one speeding course and one fine is what I'll probably do. I don't have time or energy or really care that much to take it to court - I know I'm in the wrong here for speeding. For those wondering, the two offences were actually 33 minutes apart - not 40. And for what it's worth, I'm a 'she' This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:00 |
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Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 18:52
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Noted and corrected
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Sun, 2 Jun 2019 - 21:26
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
And for what it's worth, I'm a 'she' Unless we are told, we cannot guess so we tend to apply the same principle found here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/6 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 09:21
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,423 Joined: 15 Apr 2009 From: Winnersh, UK Member No.: 27,840 |
Covering 40 miles at 70MPH would take 34 minutes 17 seconds, so your average speed appears to be marginally over 70MPH, but given that you have been shown to reach 84MPH and 87MPH on two separate occasions, you might be hard pressed to persuade anybody that you did not at any point dip below 70MPH in between these two occasions
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Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 15:15
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 634 Joined: 8 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,778 |
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope
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Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 17:20
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope That being said if they play hard-ball, take whatever out of court offer they put forwards. It would not be good mitigation in court to say that your offending behaviour spanned a distance of almost 50 miles. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 07:46
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 601 Joined: 7 May 2019 Member No.: 103,734 |
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope The only realistic and sensible application of "one" in your post applies to the envelope. |
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Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 09:18
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 634 Joined: 8 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,778 |
Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope That being said if they play hard-ball, take whatever out of court offer they put forwards. It would not be good mitigation in court to say that your offending behaviour spanned a distance of almost 50 miles. Agreed. A course and a fixed penalty seems the best way to go for the OP. Looking on google maps shows it could be 45 miles, covering that in 33 mins equals 80 mph so it could be considered one offence. Certainly nothing to be lost by replying in the one envelope The only realistic and sensible application of "one" in your post applies to the envelope. I’m tempted to say crawl back under your bridge, but in order to help the OP I’ll expand my original point. OP, if you can get the exact location of each camera/ can you can then work out the actual distance and therefore average speed. Assuming it comes out around the 80 mark you can write a polite letter asking them to treat the 2 notices as a single speeding offence on this occasion. I like the analogy of breaking into a house. If a witness saw you through the living room window at 10pm and another witness saw you in an upstairs bedroom at 10:20pm you wouldn’t be charged with 2 counts of burglary. I can’t see how a polite letter could hurt, (unless of course the office bod who opens it is TryOut or somebody similar). |
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Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 12:15
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
I like the analogy of breaking into a house. If a witness saw you through the living room window at 10pm and another witness saw you in an upstairs bedroom at 10:20pm you wouldn’t be charged with 2 counts of burglary. Indeed not. But if you came out of the first house and broke into a second forty miles away, you would. But I agree, a polite begging letter will do no harm. However, if the ticket office does not agree to combining the two I would certainly not risk asking a court to do so. |
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Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:15
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#18
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 31 May 2019 Member No.: 104,102 |
Hi everybody,
Thanks for the further advice. I'm going to write a polite begging letter and include that with the forms, if that doesn't work i'm going to take 3 points + a speeding course as it's really not worth going to court over as I accept that it's my fault for breaking the speed limit. Thanks again! This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 17:40 |
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Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:26
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I accept that it's my fault for breaking the speed limit twice. If you accept that it was not a single continuous offence then you cannot write a letter saying it was, can you? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:40
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#20
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 31 May 2019 Member No.: 104,102 |
I accept that it's my fault for breaking the speed limit twice. If you accept that it was not a single continuous offence then you cannot write a letter saying it was, can you? Sorry, I meant that as in I got caught by two separate cameras... I'm pretty sure I was consistently driving above the speed limit. And for what it's worth, I'm a 'she' Unless we are told, we cannot guess so we tend to apply the same principle found here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/6 no worries! This post has been edited by unfortunatechild: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:39 |
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