VCS / myparkingcharge.co.uk / Double Yellows |
VCS / myparkingcharge.co.uk / Double Yellows |
Thu, 22 Dec 2016 - 17:37
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 30 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,610 |
It would appear that the driver of a vehilce I own went to the gym and yet was too lazy/cold to walk from the back and instead copied several other people and parked up on double yellows.
Upon returning, they found a small piece of card attached to the windscreen detailing a serial number, and a website (myparkingcharge.co.uk) to visit for further details. The text on the notice says "the car park operator has reason to believe that this vehilce is parked in contravention of the advertised terms and conditions. As a result a parking charge notice may be issued to the registered keeper through the post" On the website is Site Enforcer Details The contravention was recorded by: Site Enforcer: Vehicle Control Services Limited Contravention Details Notice Serial Number: ##### Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM): ### Vehicle Make: ## Vehicle Model: ## The Site Enforcer had reasonable belief that the above vehicle had committed the following contravention: Contravention: 81) PARKED IN A RESTRICTED / PROHIBITED AREA Site / Location: #### Postal Town / City: ### (##) Date and time of recorded contravention: ## December, 2016 at ##:##:## Photographic Evidence (a number of photographs of my car parked on double yellows along with a photograph of the sign http://imgur.com/a/HJZyC Charge Status Current Amount: £60.00 Options: pay, appeal, say who's liable to pay it. Obviously, this close to Christmas, neither the driver, nor I fancy paying £60. Is there anything to appeal against, any liklihood of being given something to appeal with? |
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Thu, 22 Dec 2016 - 17:37
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Thu, 22 Dec 2016 - 17:52
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Wait for the Notice to Keeper. For POFA to create keeper liability the NTK details have to agree with the Notice to Driver. Since there were no details on the NTD then there can be no details on the NTK. Whatever it says on the website cannot be construed as a valid NTD. They are hoping that there will be a response to the NTD and people will drop themselves in it. Its VCS anyway who do not appear to use POFA to hold the keeper liable.
Where does the sign say that parking on double yellows is not permitted? |
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Thu, 22 Dec 2016 - 18:01
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
So far there's only a PCN on the car?
Two options, wait for them to write to the keeper or appeal as the keeper before they access the DVLA. (They have to wait 28 days) As the keeper wasn't driving (it seems) and that they don't bother with 'keeper liability' (their choice) then they can only pursue the driver. However, it must be made clear to them that the keeper was not driving - preferably with some 'evidence'. At the moment they have reasonable cause to access the DVLA but you can either give them some rope to misuse personal information or some rope later when continuing to process it... Where does the sign say that parking on double yellows is not permitted? Marked bay only seems to cover it -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 09:24
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 30 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,610 |
So, the NTK through the post arrived.
http://imgur.com/a/VWHbu What next? Appeal to PoPLA or? [apologies, I appreciate this is probably a fairly simple thing but it's been a while since my last appeal and I'm rusty] |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 10:05
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
Looks like they've changed the design of their forms to include the content required by the Protection of Freedoms Act to pursue the keeper if they don't know who was driving
VCS isn't a member of the British Parking Association so POPLA won't be available Its own so-called independent appeal system gives the motorist no chance There are several ways to play this : 1 Send VCS a double-barrelled challenge then ignore everything - it puts you on record as having engaged in the event of court action 2 Ignore everything until an actual Letter of Claim arrives then either send a double-barrelled response or identify the driver so they have to start again 3 Tell the gym to cancel it if you're a member - or you're cancelling your membership 4 Let the driver tell the gym to cancel |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 10:15
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Looks like they've changed the design of their forms to include the content required by the Protection of Freedoms Act to pursue the keeper if they don't know who was driving Yes, at first glance it seems sufficient. Well that's a turnaround considering they had decided they didn't need to comply as Elliott v Loake was their saviour (not). Did they wait 28 days before accessing the DVLA? Naming the driver is an option - but they won't be afforded an appeal because they'll state the driver had this opportunity before the NtK was issued. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 10:17
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,124 Joined: 8 Feb 2013 Member No.: 59,842 |
So, the NTK through the post arrived. http://imgur.com/a/VWHbu What next? Appeal to PoPLA or? [apologies, I appreciate this is probably a fairly simple thing but it's been a while since my last appeal and I'm rusty] You really can't afford to go to sleep on this stuff, especially as it seems VCS have sorted out their NtK and have become highly litigious of late. You need to be researching the forum to get to understand what this stuff is all about. Regulars will help, but can't do all of this for you. |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 10:38
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
Good point that the driver won't be afforded an appeal but he can also ignore VCS
It leaves VCS with the decision whether to issue a claim anyway or go back to the OP who will now have a defence The back of the form says that the driver must be named within 28 days so it conflicts conveniently with POFA if they argue that it's too late to name him |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 13:48
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Their NtK confirms no contract could have been offered. You cant be parked somehwere prohibited if a contract was offered to you!
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 14:01
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,582 Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,813 |
Their NtK confirms no contract could have been offered. You cant be parked somehwere prohibited if a contract was offered to you! Exactly. My take is the same on this. The contravention was one where a prohibition was in place so they had no reason to offer a contract based on overriding a strict prohibition. Only the actual landowner (the gym?) would have the authority to take legal action, and that would only be for trespass. If the NTK arrived or was dated before the expiry of 28 days from the date of the windscreen ticket they have just lost out on claiming keeper liability. Please let us know the dates. Once you do that there's be ample advice on how to handle this but I smell a breach of the DPA coming on........ This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 14:05 -------------------- The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 14:37
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 30 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,610 |
I'll get myself better acquainted with the current state of play, but in relation to the dates:
Contravention date : 21/12/2016 NtK Issue (posted) Date : 30/12/2016 |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:03
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
As you will see from POFA Sched 4 Para 8, they must wait 28 days until they access the DVLA, because they put a windscreen ticket on.
So while they have put some of the correct language in place (no period of parking, no amount unpaid etc) they cant deliver it in the correct timescales. |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:16
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,582 Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,813 |
Which gives rise to a complaint to the DVLA for accessing the details and breaching the terms of their Kadoe Agreement B2.
They attempt to invoke Keeper Liability but are unable as they applied for the details far too soon where they state keeper liability applies.. Knock up a complaint on that one to start with. As soon as I see that I will add a letter you can send to UKPC. I think there may be a breach of the DPA here but others may well think differently, but in any case they can't use keeper liability now for certain. I hope the driver kebt the bit of cardboard and that you have a screen capture of the items shown on the website in relation to the PCN number. Hang onto them like gold. -------------------- The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:20
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
So it isn't a valid Notice to Keeper that must be served within the relevant period
This is the 28 days window that begins 28 days after the windscreen ticket AND NO EARLIER If the OP wasn't driving, he has no liability as keeper |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:22
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Hmmm, that was my suspicion. They seem to have processed it as an 'ANPR' ticket which they can do but that's only where a PCN (NtD) hasn't placed on the car.
There may be an angle that they accessed the DVLA without reasonable cause. (And actually undermines the keeper liability) This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:22 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:27
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,337 Joined: 4 Jan 2007 Member No.: 9,897 |
this is a sample of the "new" ticket (another forum , another case)
the website makes use of a 0900 type number if you need to speak to someone myparkingcharge © 2017 is operated and provided by the Central Processing Office. MyParkingCharge and the Central Processing Office is a trading style of the Excel Parking Services Group Registered in England & Wales No. 02878122 Registered Address: 2 Europa Court, Sheffield Business Park, Sheffield, S9 1XE myparkingcharge dot co dot uk redirects to excel http://excel.zatappeal.com/# This post has been edited by freddy1: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:32 |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:29
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,582 Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,813 |
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...Contract_V4.pdf
Section B2.1 refers as far as the DVLA are concerned. They have failed on the first requirement where keeper liability is being used and the second requirement doesn'ty apply anyway since they makde it known they rely on PoFA. Definite breach of the KADOE Agreement and I can see no reason why there shouldn't be a breach of the DPA either as they had no reasonable cause to access the keeper details when not in compliance to their agreed conditions. -------------------- The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:34
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
this is a sample of the "new" ticket (another forum , another case) Hmmm. Looks like a 'self ticketing' operation. But is it a NtD or not...? (The start of this thread says it offers options to appeal, pay etc.) It looks like they're hedging their bets - issue the ticket (hopefully the driver will pay/appeal) and then issue a NtK within 14 days like 'ANPR'. Smells to me. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:37
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,337 Joined: 4 Jan 2007 Member No.: 9,897 |
in the ticket shown above it was a fully uniformed patrol officer that issued the ticket (thread on MSE)
in ther origional post the OP said "It would appear that the driver of a vehilce I own went to the gym and yet was too lazy/cold to walk from the back and instead copied several other people and parked up on double yellows. Upon returning, they found a small piece of card attached to the windscreen detailing a serial number, and a website (myparkingcharge.co.uk) to visit for further details." then went on to say that an appeal was available via a website nothing else is on the ticket posted above , just in a yellow plastic envelope , not even a phone No or a postal address VCS mention if you get a ticket from Myparkingcharge you can pay via their website using Worldpay Very interesting to note that if an error is made doing this, you can email them or phone them on 0906 302 0211 which is a premium rate number and what's missing are the call charges ??? 0906 number call costs 0906 number call charges are made up of two parts: a Service Charge of up to £3.60 per minute and/or £6.00 which benefits the organisation you are calling and an Access Charge set by your phone company. The Service Charge should be shown wherever an 0906 number is advertised. One must assume that by using the above number is goes to their customer service and that is not allowed ? "Companies are prohibited from using service numbers such as 0906 numbers for post-sales customer service lines." The PSA regulates these numbers in the UK http://psauthority.org.uk/ This post has been edited by freddy1: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:44 |
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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:43
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
IIRC Excel owns VCS
Can't see even BW Legal trying to argue that there was no Notice to Driver because it was issued by a sister company and doesn't provide any details This post has been edited by Gan: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 - 15:46 |
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