[NIP Wizard] help- single justicew procedural notice -speeding |
[NIP Wizard] help- single justicew procedural notice -speeding |
Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 12:28
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 1 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,225 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - June 2018 Date of the NIP: - 124 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 124 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M25epping,NR M/post5563B, anticlockwise(junctions 23 to 27)(variable speed limits) regulations 2013 and section 17(2), (3) and (4) of the road traffic regulaton act 1984 and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act 1988 Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I didn't know I had committed any speeding offence. I can't remember much as it is so long ago. I found out about the NIP because it was sent to my parent's address. I filled it in and sent it off. Apparently, the initial one was sent to my home address which I haven't been at for a while because it has had water damage and was inhabitable. I have been waiting for it to be repaired. according to their records, it was sent 15/06/2018. I received a SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURAL NOTICE police report. It says reason for prosecution - insufficient time to process COFPN NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Unsure Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Unsure Do you know who was driving? - Yes - Yes - Yes NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered: Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 01 Dec 2018 12:28:51 +0000 |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 12:28
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 13:01
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
QUOTE Were you driving? - Unsure Do you know who was driving? - Yes What does that mean? If you accept that you were the person most likely to have been driving, you can fill in the form you will have been sent with the single justice procedure notice and indicate a guilty plea. Then in the mitigation section explain that you did not see the form as you were not living at your home at the time as it had water damage, and when you saw the notice and responded there was insufficient time to process a COFPN. Request therefore that the court follow the guideline when a fixed penalty cannot be issued for administrative reasons and sentence you at the fixed penalty rate. -------------------- |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 13:12
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 1 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,225 |
I can't recall that date. I don't recall seeing any variable speed signs of 50mph, if I had I would have slowed down. I have a clean license of over 35 years. I'm pretty mortified.
it says 6 penalty points and a fine. Will they take my license away? should I go to court? |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 13:19
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 17 May 2010 Member No.: 37,614 |
What speed are you alleged to have been driving ?
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 13:26
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
it says 6 penalty points and a fine. Will they take my license away? should I go to court? 6 points is the maximum penalty for a speeding offence but what you get depends on the alleged speed and limit. Tell us the speed and we will be able to estimate the points. You won't be (possibly) losing your licence unless you already have 6 points or the speed is high enough to warrant a ban. If the speed would have merited a fixed penalty it might be worth going to court to ask if you could be sentenced at the fixed penalty rate (3 points and £100), the bench may accept that. |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 13:29
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 1 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,225 |
the notice says 78mph and the variable speed limit was said to be 50. I don't recall seeing any signs saying 50mph. I haven't been given any pictures.
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 13:34
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
What charges are on the SJPN?
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 13:47
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
QUOTE I received a SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURAL NOTICE police report. It says reason for prosecution - insufficient time to process COFPN That implies that a fixed penalty would have been given if the response had been earlier. Is there any mention of a s.172 offence? -------------------- |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 14:07
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,505 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
QUOTE I received a SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURAL NOTICE police report. It says reason for prosecution - insufficient time to process COFPN That implies that a fixed penalty would have been given if the response had been earlier. Is there any mention of a s.172 offence? Which would be unusual for 78 in a 50. I don't recall seeing any signs saying 50mph. I haven't been given any pictures. That section is HADECS3 - which will take an auxiliary picture of the displayed limit. Apparently, the initial one was sent to my home address which I haven't been at for a while because it has had water damage and was inhabitable. They would have initially used the address on your v5. Has this now been updated? -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 14:15
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
QUOTE I received a SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURAL NOTICE police report. It says reason for prosecution - insufficient time to process COFPN That implies that a fixed penalty would have been given if the response had been earlier. Is there any mention of a s.172 offence? That's why i asked what charges were on SJPN. So far they have no driver nomination for the speeding charge. -------------------- |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 14:25
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 14:43
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
So far they have no driver nomination for the speeding charge. According to the OP they have replied: QUOTE I found out about the NIP because it was sent to my parent's address. I filled it in and sent it off Indeed, all the implications are that they have accepted a late nomination of the driver and are pursuing the speeding offence alone, but the OP is being a little vague about what he has been sent. The 6 points mentioned might just be stated as the maximum for the offence, along with possible disqualification and a fine, but without more specific input from the OP it is just guesswork. -------------------- |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 14:48
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 1 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,225 |
The charge sheet bit says
'statement of facts - at (time) on //18 the defendant drove a mechanically propelled vehicle. being vehicle (name of car)on a special road, namely m25 Epping ,nr m/post 5563B, subject of regulations, namely on a special road, namely the m25 motorway (junctions 23 to 27) (variable speed limits) regulations 2013 and section 17(2), (3) and (4) of the road traffic regulations act 1984, at a speed exceeding 50 miles ph. the speed recorded by means of a redflex hadec3 was 78mph.' this offence carries penalty points. the first nip was apparently sent to my home address. I haven't been able to stay there as the place was made inhabitable. I was told not to go back there as it was not safe. I've been waiting to for it to be fixed. I recently went to check but didn't find any letter. If it was my car then I would be the driver. I have not been given any photo evidence. I will fill in the mitigation section and put to go to court. |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 15:11
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,505 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
As it is a HADECS3 it's almost certain the evidence will show your car passing a 50mph sign.
As you've stated you were driving it's going to be hard to avoid. That excess will consider a short ban but should you want to plead guilty you may get 6 points via the postal plea. (But they may request your presence to consider the ban) Also, costs of £85 and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30). Guideline fine is 150% of weekly earnings, discounted by 33% for a guilty plea. This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 15:12 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 15:14
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
I will fill in the mitigation section and put to go to court. Are you sure you want to go to court? You could ask for the matter to be dealt with under the "Single Justice" procedure. That way the matter is heard "on papers" without you attending. What mitigation to the speeding offence are you thinking of mentioning? Or are you thinking of requesting a sentence at the Fixed Penalty level because of the difficulties in serving the NIP on you? If the latter, as has been mentioned, your speed is too fast for a fixed penalty normally to be offered. It may be that the reason stated on your letter ("too late for COFP to be offered") may simply be the result of a "sausage machine" approach. i.e. the dates were examined and court action instigated as a result of that without consideration for the speed. If you are going to ask the court to sentence you at the fixed penalty level you may need to get proof that a FP would have been offered but for the date problem. If you are sentenced in accordance with the normal sentencing guidelines you face a fine of a week's net income (assuming a guilty plea), a surcharge of 10% of the fine, £85 costs and either six points or a short ban (with six points being the most likely). This post has been edited by NewJudge: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 15:29 |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 15:19
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
I will fill in the mitigation section and put to go to court. What mitigation to the speeding offence are you thinking of mentioning? Do not put what I suggested earlier, that would only be appropriate if your speed was at the level where a fixed penalty would be considered, ie below 75 in a 50 limit. All you can realistically say is that it was a moment of inattention, you did not notice the reduced speed limit indicated, and apologise. -------------------- |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 15:57
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Why not? As the letter implies a COFP would have been sent I’d be inclined to try it on (enclosing a copy of the letter with the plea) nothing ventured, not thing gained.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 16:00
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,505 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Looks like the wrong template was used - agreed, nothing to be lost in asking for a fixed penalty equivalent sentence.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 1 Dec 2018 - 16:05
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Well yes, I remember the good sergeant telling us that just before he left Essex police they went to using fixed penalties up to 55 in a 30, perhaps they have raised limits for the higher speeds as well, go for it peppapig!
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