PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Ignore or not?, Time to try to settle this
southpaw82
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 21:18
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,054
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



Right, I'm getting a bit tired of the ignore/don't ignore argument breaking out in advice threads. So, thrash it out here. This thread will remain a sticky until I'm happy we've come to some sort of consensus.
Please don't have the argument in advice threads. If necessary point new OPs to this thread to make up their own minds.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
7 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 21:18
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
kirkbyinfurnessl...
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 21:45
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,413
Joined: 14 May 2013
From: Sheffield
Member No.: 61,888



various options.

I see them as this:

We advice everyone to do an appeal then appeal to appeal

We give people the choices of either ignore or appeal

We base the second option based on the company in question

If we give people the choices then prehaps let them make their own decision or we give a template response, which could incorporate the wizard some how?

This post has been edited by kirkbyinfurnesslad: Thu, 30 May 2013 - 21:58


--------------------
www.parkingticketappeals.org.uk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
axeman
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 21:56
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,327
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
From: Midlands
Member No.: 11,071



My view is that we advise everyone to appeal,

1] POPLA is delivering over a 50% success rate so half of appeals are closed straight away.

2] the remaining 50% wont all go to court because they will cherry pick the less well argued cases and not risk being stuffed later on.

3] if it does go to court you will have the evidence that you have been trying to resolve.

4] if everyone appeals and the PPC's supply the POPLA codes then POPLA will collapse under the work load

5] if everyone appeals the PPC's will strain under the workload and only be able to process a percentage. some parkers will just fall by the wayside and escape the threats.

6] use the system as sometimes it can be it's own worst enemy





--------------------
NOTICE The content of this post and of any replies to it may assist in or relate to the formulation of strategy tactics etcetera in a legal action. This post and any replies to it should therefore be assumed to be legally privileged and therefore must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to outside of the PePiPoo forum on which it was originally posted additionally it must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to by any person or organisation other than a member of PePiPoo appropriately paid up and in full compliance with the PePiPoo terms of use for the forum on which it was originally posted. The PePiPoo terms of use can be found at http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=boardrules. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are reading this material in any form other than an on-line HTML resource directly and legitimately accessed via a URL commencing "http://forums.pepipoo.com" then it has been obtained by improper means and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. If the material you are reading does not include this notice then it has been obtained improperly and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. Your attention is drawn to the Written Standards for the Conduct of Professional Work issued by the Bar Standards Board particularly under heading 7, "Documents".

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved" and do not constitute legal advice. Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kirkbyinfurnessl...
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:00
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,413
Joined: 14 May 2013
From: Sheffield
Member No.: 61,888



So given that then , is it worth doing a template reply to people who have got tickets

So the advice is consistent and to the point



--------------------
www.parkingticketappeals.org.uk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:01
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,054
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



According to one blogger POPLA is costing the PPCs a fortune, at least on paper.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vinesh Patel
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:06
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 195
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,573



IMO NEVER ignore. Always appeal. Every single claim that is going through at the moment is for people who ignore. appeal to POPLA and don't run the risk of a default judgment ruining your credit rating when you've moved house four years down the line.

"Ignore PE they don't do court" was once a well touted response. Times change, and the only sure way to protect yourself is to always appeal and win at POPLA.

Ignoring may also work against you in any hearing as you have not taken reasonable steps to resolve before court (I.e. putting the PPC to task in your strong appeal).

This post has been edited by Vinesh Patel: Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:06
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Chippy365
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:07
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 118
Joined: 17 May 2013
Member No.: 61,969



This has been my argument all along.

The only reason there has been an influx in ParkingEye court claims is due to ignorers ignoring. Sooner or later, another PPC is going to follow suit and we'll be stuck in the same problem.

Nip in the bud, advise everyone to appeal (it really isn't difficult, so many are successful) and those that aren't successful can if needs be go to court with the help of pepipoo.

At the same time it increases POPLA workload, costs the PPC's money and they might consider whether they want to continue pursuing everyone.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vinesh Patel
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:09
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 195
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,573



QUOTE (kirkbyinfurnesslad @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:00) *
So given that then , is it worth doing a template reply to people who have got tickets

So the advice is consistent and to the point

PPC's can just devise a template against the template however. This is a fluid situation. I do not think templates suit every situation and may end up alienating the adjudicators, when a bespoke appeal based on the facts may result in a more favourable outcome for the consumer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Umkomaas
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:10
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,603
Joined: 8 Feb 2013
Member No.: 59,842



QUOTE
1] POPLA is delivering over a 50 61% success rate so half almost two thirds of appeals are closed straight away.

2] the remaining 50 39% wont all go to court because they will cherry pick the less well argued cases and not risk being stuffed later on.


Updated statistics.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kirkbyinfurnessl...
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:14
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,413
Joined: 14 May 2013
From: Sheffield
Member No.: 61,888



QUOTE (Vinesh Patel @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:09) *
QUOTE (kirkbyinfurnesslad @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:00) *
So given that then , is it worth doing a template reply to people who have got tickets

So the advice is consistent and to the point

PPC's can just devise a template against the template however. This is a fluid situation. I do not think templates suit every situation and may end up alienating the adjudicators, when a bespoke appeal based on the facts may result in a more favourable outcome for the consumer.



No you misnderstand

I didnt mean popla templates, they dont really work.

I mean template responses to people getting tickets

So they get ticket from ukcps etc

You then Do A and then come back here and do B


--------------------
www.parkingticketappeals.org.uk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Concrete Jungle
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:15
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 757
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,147



Ignoring is not working for PE and CEL, but they can't issue speculative court papers to every single ignorer? The popla stick has worked quite well for now, costs the PPC time, money, manpower, printing and postage, a good popla appeal and win puts the speculative invoice to bed for good. If PE and CEL report a good number of fools folding and paying up after getting speculative court papers / last last very last chance to pay up before court / our costs are rising threatograms / 50 page replies to defence threatograms at the next BPA shindig then will it not convince other PPCs to follow suit?


--------------------
VCS v Ibbotson
Excel v Hetherington - Jakeman
ParkingEye v Riyaz Patel
Mayhook v National Car Parks & Nigel Barrington - Fuller

When posting on pepipoo do not reveal any information that may enable private parking companies to identify you. They DO trawl this forum. Redact your name, address, pcn number, date of alleged contravention, date on speculative invoice, vehicle reg, vehicle picture, time you allegedly entered car park, time you allegedly left car park, time limit on the car park, the amount of time you allegedly overstay and the address / location of the car park. Also redact any barcodes or QR codes (if present)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kirkbyinfurnessl...
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:22
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,413
Joined: 14 May 2013
From: Sheffield
Member No.: 61,888



Concrete i feel that prehaps you have hit the nail on the head now


--------------------
www.parkingticketappeals.org.uk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vinesh Patel
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:26
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 195
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,573



QUOTE (Concrete Jungle @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:15) *
Ignoring is not working for PE and CEL, but they can't issue speculative court papers to every single ignorer?

Playing DA here, however if a PPC identifies that issuing court papers is returning an overall profit, why would they not issue a claim for every single (ignored) unpaid case? Each payment means they can do at least six more claims. It will also boost their non court collection rates as people get wind that they "do" do court.

My analysis is that PE tested the waters with a few claims (around the time Ming got his) and then got a bit braver ... And now suddenly they have seemingly issued claims to many hundreds of people in one go via the bulk centre (which is surprisingly easy to do). For so many people to have come here in one go tonight, they must have issued at least 3000 if we assume 1% of people receiving claims have found their way already to the main three anti PPC websites.

That is why a strong appeal followed by POPLA win is the only route to take IMO.

This post has been edited by Vinesh Patel: Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:31
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kirkbyinfurnessl...
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:29
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,413
Joined: 14 May 2013
From: Sheffield
Member No.: 61,888



I think you are way of the mark thinking they issued 3000 claims.....


--------------------
www.parkingticketappeals.org.uk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vinesh Patel
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:36
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 195
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,573



QUOTE (kirkbyinfurnesslad @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:29) *
I think you are way of the mark thinking they issued 3000 claims.....

Just a guess. How many do you think were issued baring in mind how many threads we've seen?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kirkbyinfurnessl...
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:42
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,413
Joined: 14 May 2013
From: Sheffield
Member No.: 61,888



QUOTE (Vinesh Patel @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:36) *
QUOTE (kirkbyinfurnesslad @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:29) *
I think you are way of the mark thinking they issued 3000 claims.....

Just a guess. How many do you think were issued baring in mind how many threads we've seen?


I think its impossible to guess .

How Long is a piece of string?


--------------------
www.parkingticketappeals.org.uk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Chippy365
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 22:42
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 118
Joined: 17 May 2013
Member No.: 61,969



QUOTE (Vinesh Patel @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:26) *
QUOTE (Concrete Jungle @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:15) *
Ignoring is not working for PE and CEL, but they can't issue speculative court papers to every single ignorer?

Playing DA here, however if a PPC identifies that issuing court papers is returning an overall profit, why would they not issue a claim for every single (ignored) unpaid case? Each payment means they can do at least six more claims. It will also boost their non court collection rates as people get wind that they "do" do court.

My analysis is that PE tested the waters with a few claims (around the time Ming got his) and then got a bit braver ... And now suddenly they have seemingly issued claims to many hundreds of people in one go via the bulk centre (which is surprisingly easy to do). For so many people to have come here in one go tonight, they must have issued at least 3000 if we assume 1% of people receiving claims have found their way already to the main three anti PPC websites.

That is why a strong appeal followed by POPLA win is the only route to take IMO.



Exactly this. For all the PPC invoices, a strong POPLA appeal will see them off and will cost the PPC money. Eventually they'll realise that their charges are too punitive and based upon lies and misinformation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Concrete Jungle
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:07
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 757
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,147



QUOTE (Chippy365 @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:42) *
QUOTE (Vinesh Patel @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:26) *
QUOTE (Concrete Jungle @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:15) *
Ignoring is not working for PE and CEL, but they can't issue speculative court papers to every single ignorer?

Playing DA here, however if a PPC identifies that issuing court papers is returning an overall profit, why would they not issue a claim for every single (ignored) unpaid case? Each payment means they can do at least six more claims. It will also boost their non court collection rates as people get wind that they "do" do court.

My analysis is that PE tested the waters with a few claims (around the time Ming got his) and then got a bit braver ... And now suddenly they have seemingly issued claims to many hundreds of people in one go via the bulk centre (which is surprisingly easy to do). For so many people to have come here in one go tonight, they must have issued at least 3000 if we assume 1% of people receiving claims have found their way already to the main three anti PPC websites.

That is why a strong appeal followed by POPLA win is the only route to take IMO.



Exactly this. For all the PPC invoices, a strong POPLA appeal will see them off and will cost the PPC money. Eventually they'll realise that their charges are too punitive and based upon lies and misinformation.

Or they will have the BPA remove the bits of the AOS CoP that the PPCs keep tripping up on at popla.


--------------------
VCS v Ibbotson
Excel v Hetherington - Jakeman
ParkingEye v Riyaz Patel
Mayhook v National Car Parks & Nigel Barrington - Fuller

When posting on pepipoo do not reveal any information that may enable private parking companies to identify you. They DO trawl this forum. Redact your name, address, pcn number, date of alleged contravention, date on speculative invoice, vehicle reg, vehicle picture, time you allegedly entered car park, time you allegedly left car park, time limit on the car park, the amount of time you allegedly overstay and the address / location of the car park. Also redact any barcodes or QR codes (if present)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Chippy365
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:30
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 118
Joined: 17 May 2013
Member No.: 61,969



Nothing will stop the fact that they are penalty charges which are unenforceable in contract law.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:37
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,428
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



Agree that we should be saying appeal and then use POPLA.

But it would help if we could show in a sticky a fairly standard 'first challenge template' for use to send to AOS members for incidents in England/Wales only, and only once the first letter has been received (unless it's a hire/company/lease car):

Could be as simple as Concrete Jungle's version if the poster likes a short but sweet appeal in order to use it as a stepping stone to POPLA:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79309

and maybe give them the other template as an alternative, the one from parking cowboys, if they like a more legalese letter:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/appeal-letter/

But I think we do also need a simple summary of what to consider for a POPLA appeal as well as we can't keep handling these on a case by case basis as soon as a poster shouts 'help me with my POPLA appeal!' Better to show them a sticky with some reading to be done and then we can advise when we see their draft (like on the Council tickets thread). We are coming up to the Summer when many of us will be on our hols July/August so we won't keep up with all these shouts for help unless we can show them a standard POPLA appeals 'what to consider, what to check, what to include' summary with useful links.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 30 May 2013 - 23:38
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

7 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 27th May 2018 - 12:05
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.