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11 ANPR Tickets just arrived!
OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:11
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Good morning folks

I just received 11 "Reminder Letters" from APCOA relating to my vehicle being parked at a train station car park for the following dates;

4th & 5th May 2017
8th, 9th & 10th May 2017
12th May 2017
15th, 16th, 17th, 18th & 19th May

They call them reminder letters, but i didn't receive anything previously?

All of them were via the ANPR, but having gone to the site to look, there are no signs anywhere, let alone any terms and conditions!!!

Whoever parked there clearly did so without being made aware there was an ANPR camera there.

Whats the best course of action for this?

Also, not sure if relevant, but this is a lease car...

Thanks

OJB
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post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:11
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kommando
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:19
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Are the 'reminders' addressed to you or lease car company.

Are By-laws in force at this station, they very likely to be in force but do a google to confirm and see if you can get a copy.

If by laws are in force then only the Magistrates court can take the driver to task and that runs out after 6 months.
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Dave65
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:28
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Photos of the site would be nice to see!
If lack of signage is the case, it would help you.
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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:32
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Are they called parking or penalty charges?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:42
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QUOTE (kommando @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:19) *
Are the 'reminders' addressed to you or lease car company.

Are By-laws in force at this station, they very likely to be in force but do a google to confirm and see if you can get a copy.

If by laws are in force then only the Magistrates court can take the driver to task and that runs out after 6 months.


Morning kommando,

I have searched a few variations, but i can't seem to find anything relating to bylaws for that station. Would be be somewhere specific?

Thank you for your speedy response!!!!

OJB
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kommando
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:49
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Look up the Bylaws for the TOC, Train operating company.

Who are the tickets addressed too. ?

This post has been edited by kommando: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:50
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:00
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QUOTE (kommando @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:49) *
Look up the Bylaws for the TOC, Train operating company.

Who are the tickets addressed too. ?


Sorry i forgot to reply to that part!! They are all addressed to me personally.

I searched Bylaws for Great Western Railway (TOC) but nothing came up. Is it worth contacting them directly, or are they all in bed together on things like this?

Thanks again
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ostell
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:11
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Can you post up a picture of one of the PCNs please, suitably redacted of identifying details.

When the driver goes there again get a photo of the lack of signs.

Being a lease car is very relevant indeed. Presumably the registered keeper is the lease company and your name is not on the V5. Did the PCNs have copies of the lease agreement enclosed?

If all true then this is a suitable repsonse

But if it's byelaw land then the keeper cannot be held liable anyway.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:18
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:11
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:32) *
Are they called parking or penalty charges?


They are called Parking Charge Notices
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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:25
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QUOTE (OliverJB @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:11) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:32) *
Are they called parking or penalty charges?


They are called Parking Charge Notices

Ok, they are not claiming they are issued under byelaws. But byelaws are likely to apply at the location.

This means they cannot hold the keeper liable - only the driver.

QUOTE (OliverJB @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 10:11) *
Whoever parked there clearly did so without being made aware there was an ANPR camera there.

I read this a number of ways. What were the tickets issued for?

This seems to state that the keeper was not driving - which would be good as noted above...

APCOA aren't normally litigious but 11 tickets may get them more excited than usual.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:27
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:11) *
Can you post up a picture of one of the PCNs please, suitably redacted of identifying details.

When the driver goes there again get a photo of the lack of signs.

Being a lease car is very relevant indeed. Presumably the registered keeper is the lease company and your name is not on the V5. Did the PCNs have copies of the lease agreement enclosed?

If all true then this is a suitable repsonse

But if it's byelaw land then the keeper cannot be held liable anyway.


Sorry took me a while to work out how to do this!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WZnKfUeAWZSuzV3E3

Images here
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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:29
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QUOTE (OliverJB @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:27) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:11) *
Can you post up a picture of one of the PCNs please, suitably redacted of identifying details.

When the driver goes there again get a photo of the lack of signs.

Being a lease car is very relevant indeed. Presumably the registered keeper is the lease company and your name is not on the V5. Did the PCNs have copies of the lease agreement enclosed?

If all true then this is a suitable repsonse

But if it's byelaw land then the keeper cannot be held liable anyway.


Sorry took me a while to work out how to do this!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WZnKfUeAWZSuzV3E3

Images here

They seem to invite an appeal. Awesome - appeal each one stating that the amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss* and they have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act. It will be a parlaver to do this 11 times but its worth the effort.

* this is old stuff but is more likely to get them excited and freely issue POPLA codes. (POPLA will cancel them on the keeper liability point)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:31


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 12:18
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Well that notice is certainly not POFA compliant, but then if it's Byelaw land then POFA doesn't apply anyway.

Did you follow that link to a BOGOFF response?
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:12
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 12:18) *
Well that notice is certainly not POFA compliant, but then if it's Byelaw land then POFA doesn't apply anyway.

Did you follow that link to a BOGOFF response?


I am the hirer and keeper of vehicle xxxxx and have received your Parking charge Notice xxxxxx

You have failed to conform to the requirements of schedule 4 of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, section 14 (2) (a) and therefore I, as the keeper, cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver at the time. I have no legal requirements to identify the driver and will not be doing so. I do not expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that you have removed my details from your records as I have no further liability and to continue would be harassment and vexatious. Please consider this a request under the Data Protection Act, which mandates a response within 21 days.


I will be sure to send them 11 of these letters laugh.gif

It appears that the lease company has given APCOA my details for them to contact me. There is definitely no copy of my lease agreement anywhere to be seen, so is that relevant?
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kommando
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:22
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QUOTE
There is definitely no copy of my lease agreement anywhere to be seen, so is that relevant?


Yes, another failure of keeper liability as they should be included with your NTK's, so that's 2 failures and counting.
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:55
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QUOTE (kommando @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:22) *
QUOTE
There is definitely no copy of my lease agreement anywhere to be seen, so is that relevant?


Yes, another failure of keeper liability as they should be included with your NTK's, so that's 2 failures and counting.


Who should supply the lease agreement, and to whom! Should the lease company send a copy of my lease agreement to APCOA and a copy be sent to me with the original NTK?

Reason i ask is that i haven't received anything other than these 11 "reminders" which tell me about the alleged offence...
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kommando
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:00
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QUOTE
Should the lease company send a copy of my lease agreement to APCOA and a copy be sent to me with the original NTK?


Yes
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:05
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QUOTE (kommando @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:00) *
QUOTE
Should the lease company send a copy of my lease agreement to APCOA and a copy be sent to me with the original NTK?


Yes


In that case, should i speak with my lease company to ask them if they have sent them a copy of it before mentioning anything to APCOA?

Thanks again!

OJB
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ostell
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 16:03
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NO !

Don't remind them, though it will be too late by now. There is a time limit for getting the notices out to the hirer. The hire company were asked to provide the details (on the notice) and probably did but APCOA forgot to forward them.

Have a look at the reference POFA item to see what is required.

I don't quite understand why they are sending out documents entitled "Reminder"

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 16:07
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OliverJB
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 16:21
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 16:03) *
NO !

Don't remind them, though it will be too late by now. There is a time limit for getting the notices out to the hirer. The hire company were asked to provide the details (on the notice) and probably did but APCOA forgot to forward them.

Have a look at the reference POFA item to see what is required.

I don't quite understand why they are sending out documents entitled "Reminder"


haha i will take that as a no then wink.gif

OK, i will just keep to the polite letter template you sent me and see what comes from that! The fact they have 11 separate letters they have sent me concerns me slightly that they will fight it, but hopefully having not followed the correct procedure up till now, they will get thrown out even if they try and pursue me via small claims

Cheers again Ostell
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