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Final reminder from P4Parking, Parked on a residential area for 10 min
MarcinS
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 12:19
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Hi
A PCN was found on my car on 6/5/2017 as my car was parked "In A No Parking Zone" for 10 min to drop shoping home and change clothes. On 3/1/2018 I received Final reminder. I haven't received anything in between this time, any reminder, nothing. Parking ticket doesn't say how long I parked there I'm not sure if its matter.
Below Enclosed picture of the communication.
Will be great full of any help.

By the way if there is no parking zone what law say about left a car for a moment to drop children from school or shoping - should I rent a helicopter to drop them down??? Road should be closed clearly to other cars than this with residential parking permit.









This post has been edited by MarcinS: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 21:59
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post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 12:19
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ManxRed
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 12:28
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This is clearly a Trespass issue. For which only the landholder (and not a parking company) can attempt, if they so wish, to claim for actual or nominal damages. As there were no actual damages you're looking at nominal (£1?).

It certainly isn't something a parking company can claim that someone has breached a contract. There is no contract, the sign makes no offer of parking (e.g. you are perfectly entitled to park here, as long as you comply with these conditions...).

Do not inform the parking company who was driving, in fact, edit your post so that the driver is referred to as 'the driver'.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 12:30


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ostell
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:19
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Get out you lease and see what it says about parking and find the Jopson v Homeguard appeal case. And have a read of Parking Prankster

Post up that first letter, the Notice to Keeper, for comment, after removing identifying details.

The sign on the wall is a forbidding sign, it is not offering a contract to park and therefore there can be no breach of contract and therefore no charge for a breach
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cabbyman
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:44
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So far, they don't do court:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/P4_Parking_UK.html


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emergencychimp
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 17:37
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PCN is not POFA compliant.
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MarcinS
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:07
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:19) *
Get out you lease and see what it says about parking and find the Jopson v Homeguard appeal case. And have a read of Parking Prankster

Post up that first letter, the Notice to Keeper, for comment, after removing identifying details.

The sign on the wall is a forbidding sign, it is not offering a contract to park and therefore there can be no breach of contract and therefore no charge for a breach



I'm tenant and I don't have access to lease agreement.
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cabbyman
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:24
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As a tenant, you have a lease. Also known as a tenancy agreement/rental agreement/lease/ Agreement for a term of years absolute. They are totally interchangeable.

What does your 'agreement' say about parking?

Mixed Commercial/residential.

https://goo.gl/maps/kifqPLdRfU12

EDIT : Can you confirm, or show, exactly where the vehicle was parked, as far as you understand from the driver? I have a feeling the lease will be irrelevant to this, and, in fact, may over-complicate matters.


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MarcinS
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:51
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:24) *
As a tenant, you have a lease. Also known as a tenancy agreement/rental agreement/lease/ Agreement for a term of years absolute. They are totally interchangeable.

What does your 'agreement' say about parking?

Mixed Commercial/residential.

https://goo.gl/maps/kifqPLdRfU12

EDIT : Can you confirm, or show, exactly where the vehicle was parked, as far as you understand from the driver? I have a feeling the lease will be irrelevant to this, and, in fact, may over-complicate matters.


I just checked my tenancy agreement and there is no at all information about parking options.

Screen shot from my map
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cabbyman
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 19:08
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What is the 'demise?' How does the lease describe the property you are renting?


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MarcinS
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 08:07
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In my tenancy there is no information about parking at all, nothing about loading or unloading car next to premisses.
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ostell
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 09:00
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THe letter you posted says that a previous Notice to Keeper has been sent. Have you got that or is what you posted the only thing that has been received?
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Churchmouse
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:21
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QUOTE (MarcinS @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 08:07) *
In my tenancy there is no information about parking at all, nothing about loading or unloading car next to premisses.

The Jopson case relates to (and upholds) a "right of way" based on the fact of residency, not on what any particular lease says about parking. That is only relevant for long-term residents' parking, e.g., in their assigned space. Read the Jopson decision. It is not very long and it seems to be very much on point for your situation.

But, it's not the only reason you've little to worry about; the other reasons mentioned above are also good to keep in mind.

--Churchmouse

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MarcinS
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 22:13
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 09:00) *
THe letter you posted says that a previous Notice to Keeper has been sent. Have you got that or is what you posted the only thing that has been received?



Nothing more was received from them.

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 11:21) *
QUOTE (MarcinS @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 08:07) *
In my tenancy there is no information about parking at all, nothing about loading or unloading car next to premisses.

The Jopson case relates to (and upholds) a "right of way" based on the fact of residency, not on what any particular lease says about parking. That is only relevant for long-term residents' parking, e.g., in their assigned space. Read the Jopson decision. It is not very long and it seems to be very much on point for your situation.

But, it's not the only reason you've little to worry about; the other reasons mentioned above are also good to keep in mind.

--Churchmouse



Ok, I'll read this.
Should I reply straight to them in a letter or is there other way I should do this???
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peterguk
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 22:38
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OP. You were advised in an earlier post not to reveal who was driving.

Edit your first post NOW.

Refer to "the driver".


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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 23:15
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Reply and ask them for a copy of the alleged 'Notice to Keeper' because there was no such document and this is the first letter you have received.

Attach a copy of that picture of the sign with paint all over it, and say that nothing can be fairly read that could constitute a contract, if the words 'No ParkingZone' can ever be interpreted to be offering anything by way of consideration anyway; no licence allowing parking at a known 'price' (when parking is apparently prohibited) can be gleaned from that sign.

Add that you are glad Gladstones have been mentioned because Gladstones were the losing solicitors in Jopson v Homeguard, a persuasive appeal case Gladstones will remember well from 2016, where HHJ Charles Harris QC found that loading/unloading in order to exercise a tenant's right to access their flat was not parking and was allowed under their rights of way, that are implied in any modern lease/tenancy agreement whether stated explicitly, or not.

State that had you received any Notice to Keeper you would have appealed, but as none was served you have no liability under the POFA whatsoever and will not be naming the driver, notwithstanding the fact this was not a matter of parking, only unloading.

Don't refer to the windscreen PCN, and don't talk about who parked.
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cabbyman
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 06:37
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 19:08) *
What is the 'demise?' How does the lease describe the property you are renting?



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MarcinS
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 18:22
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 22:38) *
OP. You were advised in an earlier post not to reveal who was driving.

Edit your first post NOW.

Refer to "the driver".



Ok I change few words, is ok now? Should I change something else?
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ostell
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 19:28
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The driver found a parking ticket.......
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cabbyman
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 20:15
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 06:37) *
QUOTE (cabbyman @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 19:08) *
What is the 'demise?' How does the lease describe the property you are renting?




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MarcinS
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 22:07
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 20:15) *
QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 06:37) *
QUOTE (cabbyman @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 19:08) *
What is the 'demise?' How does the lease describe the property you are renting?




As I mentioned Im renting and on my tenancy agreement this no such information like this and I don't have access to else.

I prepared a latter to challenge this ticket, please share any thought how to make it better.







Thanks
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