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Euro Car Parks PCN
treeno
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 19:19
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Hi all,

First post... go easy on me.

Driver received a PCN from Euro Car Parks today. Driver was unaware that parking charges apply due to poor signage (none on entrace, green sign posted on a green railing by exit only. See pics below.

Additionally, the parking attendant who issued the ticket lifted the cover up off of the bike to read the number plate and damaged the fastening clips in the process.

Driver has never had a ticket before so would appreciate any advice! At the moment they are of a mind to appeal to Euro Car Parks based on poor signage then go to POPLA if necessary. Advice on appeal wording would be great.

Thanks!

Entrace to car park area (Charterhouse Square):



Driver's motorcycle (no signage displayed in clear view):



As far as Driver can see this is the only signage in the whole area and is at the exit:

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post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 19:19
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cabbyman
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 19:23
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Was this a ticket on the windscreen?


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Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
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treeno
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 21:42
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It was left lying in the dash area of the motorcycle.

Just noticed that the BPA Code of Practice (Euro Car Parks is an approved operator) states in section 18.3:

You must place signs containing the specific parking
terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the
chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving
their vehicle.

This is clearly not the case. Something to include in the appeal I imagine?

This post has been edited by treeno: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 22:08
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 07:57
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Fifrst appeal to ECP - just use the one from MSE FORUM, the "newbies" thread (its a sticky thread, about 3 or 4 down from the top of page one, says NEWBIES in it) - read post 1, understand post 1, and BLUE appeal from there.

ECP will reject, you know they will reject so you read up on the next stage - POPLA appeal.
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cabbyman
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 15:04
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My blow by blow thrashing of ECP:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=107154

Have a good read and UNDERSTAND! As this was a Notice to Driver, there is an argument that says appeal as RK at day 25/26 in the hope that they fail to apply for details from DVLA thus breaching Pofa sc 4 p8.


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treeno
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 18:45
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Thanks. I will read all of the above and then write up an appeal and share it with you guys before I send it off.
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treeno
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 12:50
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Appeal sent off 7 Feb (used template from MSE forum with no alterations). Rejection letter received by email today. No Notice to Keeper received at all and far more than 56 days have passed. The only communications so far have been the initial PCN and this rejection letter. I believe this contravenes PoFA schedule 4 paragraph 8 (5).

Can this be safely ignored now given that it would fail at court or does it need a POPLA appeal?
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:08
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It needs a POPLA appeal to kill it off. Easy one to win!
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treeno
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 22:02
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Sent POPLA appeal 06/05. MSE template with the relevant bits slotted in. Operator evidence submitted today - again a template response with photos of the site and signage etc. added in. It even mentions how the PCN was left under the windscreen wiper... biggrin.gif They added some stuff in response to my points:

 Section 18.3 of the British Parking Association’s (BPA) code of practice explains that
signs “must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language, so that
they are easy to see, read and understand. Signage on site is clear, when parking on
private land it is the driver’s responsibility to read the signage displayed and parked
accordance with the terms and conditions as stated. (Please see Figure 1 as well as
Section 7).
 Please see Figure 2 – the images clearly show that [name] was parked the
motorcycle in an unauthorised area. The signage clearly informs the drivers that there
is no parking for motorcycles.
 Contract law applies
 As [name] confirmed in his appeal to ECP that he was the keeper of the
motorcycle. [name] was then advised to provide the details of the driver of the
vehicle. As he failed to name the driver of the motorcycle liability could not be
transferred.


Doesn't address the missing NTK.

Should I add comments to their 'evidence' or just let POPLA consider?

This post has been edited by treeno: Wed, 23 May 2018 - 22:24
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ostell
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 06:35
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You comment on the operator response to POPLA, and disagree whenever you can. If you don't disagree with what they say then POPLA will accept what they sat.

You must mention that lack of NTK again and therefore no chance of transferring liability to keeper

Are the windscreen wipers a special feature on the bike?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 08:52
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Mention no NtK and that the keeper cannot be liable, as POFA was not complied with
Also point out that "contract law applies" means an offer msut be made. POPLA is well aware that, where tehre is no offer, there can be no contract. No parking (for motorcycles) does not convey an offer, so there is no relevant obligation.
Did they include a contract with landowner?
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treeno
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 17:40
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Thanks. No contract with landowner, no.

QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 07:35) *
Are the windscreen wipers a special feature on the bike?


It doesn't have any!

This post has been edited by treeno: Thu, 24 May 2018 - 17:42
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ostell
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 19:09
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I was being cynical !
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