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Car parking in residential areas - advise please
LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:56
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Registered keeper has received a letter before claim.
Upon reading the lease there is no mention of car parking enforcement companies however there is a section as attached.
Any advice ?

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post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:56
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 19:14
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Nothing states those regulations can be a detriment to the lessee, nothing stating requirement to enter a Parking contract with a 3rd party, no4 pay any money. Nothing removing the right to park.
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Churchmouse
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 19:38
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 19:14) *
Nothing states those regulations can be a detriment to the lessee, nothing stating requirement to enter a Parking contract with a 3rd party, no4 pay any money. Nothing removing the right to park.

That's certainly correct, but that doesn't mean the PPC will just give up. It will probably require the OP to put up a fight, in court if necessary.

Many leases have similar clauses. If a lessee breaches such a term, the lessee will be in breach of their lease, which can be a problem, but it's only a problem if the lessor decides to take action--on the lease. The lessor engaging a third party PPC to "manage" the car park is between those parties, however, and has nothing directly to do with the lessee. The PPC can enforce the lessor's rules or rules of its own--that, too, has nothing directly to do with the lessee. So, even if the lease contains a clause such as this, and the lessor has hired a rapacious PPC to make a buck off the residents (because that's where the money is), there is still no reason for a lessee to enter into a separate parking contract with the PPC each end every time they park in the residents' car park.

--Churchmouse
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 19:47
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Sorry OP?!

So generally it's not looking good?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 19:53
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Original poster. You

No it’s fine. Just don’t expect them to just give up.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:02
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I guess now my issue is how I would defend this in courts against the PPC....!
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:14
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And also who determines if it goes to court does the PPC push this or or land owner?
If the land owner was to peruse I guess it would be something entirely different?
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:16
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QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:14) *
And also who determines if it goes to court does the PPC push this or or land owner?
If the land owner was to peruse I guess it would be something entirely different?

The PPC - which is it?

The landholder has (presumably) bestowed the right to issue contracts (and pursue) in their own name.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:20
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Ukcpm
Will the landowner be made aware of the case?
Other people here have lost at court but won on appeal.... see the below

I have recently received 2 tickets whilst parking underground in my own bay at I appealed both tickets and won on both counts. The adjudicator gave the following judgement.

The adjudicator made their decision

While noting the Operator's evidence, I am persuaded by the Appellant's evidence which shows that the driver was not made adequately aware of the contractual signage which detailed the terms and conditions of parking at this site. I also note that it may well be the case that the Operator does not have the authority to issue and enforce PCNs in this particular bay.
"On the evidence provided I am not satisfied that the charge has been correctly issued and accordingly I must allow this appeal".
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:29
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QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:20) *
Ukcpm

Ok, they are quite litigious so a claim may well follow. Does the LBC comply with the new protocol? How much time are you given and does it refer to a reply form?

QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:20) *
Will the landowner be made aware of the case?

Probably not - why? Have you contacted them? (Best to do this ASAP!)

QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:20) *
Other people here have lost at court but won on appeal.... see the below

That's not court.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:35
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This is my lbc. I am yet to respond, waiting on advice. I have been told to tick the box and return with proof of posting.
Landlord - land owner ( I own my place) I am reluctant to approach as of what is written in the lease. I have heard they are practicaly impossible to get hold of and aren't helpful either (past cases)

Lbc attached. Having trouble
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:39
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Ok, it's GS's updated PAP. Use the Reply Form to narrow the issues.

State that you lease has primacy over the signs.
Request the terms of the contract they have with the landholder - that it gives them sufficient rights.
etc.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:42
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Shall I request the reply form first then ask for these in my reply form?
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:46
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You download them from their link.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:08
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I am reluctant to use their website, i will request paper copies. Will my response still have to be within 30 days of the original letter? Should Include any covering letter/ask for proof of ntk or anything or wait to issue my reply when the send this back ?

This post has been edited by LLL: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:28
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:42
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QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:08) *
I am reluctant to use their website, i will request paper copies.

Why? After all they are legitimate solicitors. (Awaits feedback laugh.gif)

QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:08) *
Will my response still have to be within 30 days of the original letter?

Yes.

QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:08) *
Should Include any covering letter/ask for proof of ntk or anything or wait to issue my reply when the send this back ?

Don't necessarily ask for 'proof' of things because this sends the message that if they supply it then you accept it.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:55
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I'm so confused as what to do I was given the advice to return the form to ask for the information sheet and reply form without a covering letter, when this is issued I would be given 30 days from then to reply?
Is this incorrect?
What exactly do I receive with the information sheet? And reply form?
Are there any examples of what I should include as a covering letter at this point?
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:00
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Who gave that advice?

What's the date on the LBC?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:00


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:02
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Another forum, dated 1st December
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:03
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Some info here.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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