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Civil Enforcement - COURT CLAIM LETTER, Threads merged
maddox
post Mon, 3 Jul 2017 - 10:42
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Hi All

I received a court claim letter from CEL. I have checked the box online stating I will be defending the claim in full and have not touched the defence section yet (thanks to the advice of this board). I now have until the 15th July to enter my defense.

1. I have included a photo of the sign below. It is a Chinese restaurant (yummy). The sign states: YOU CAN REGISTER FOR A FREE ONE DAY PARKING PERMIT IN THE RESTAURANT. This basically means if you are dining in the restaurant they take your registration plate and enter it into their system. The registration was not registered and the driver went to the shop across the road to it and didn't realise that cameras were checking on the way out of the car park.

2. There are no signs stating that there is a camera system in place other than on the small print on the sign.

3. Does anybody see anything wrong with the signage in place?

4. I was never send a LBCCC.

5. Before I enter my defense should I have sent CEL a letter asking for photo evidence, contract between them and landowner etc?. Or should I just make the claim that I didn't receive them in the first place and it is up to them to prove it?

6. The original "PCN" I received was past the 14 days from when the event allegedly happened. Does this matter and should it be included?

Thanks for any help on this. I will post my defense before I enter it.




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post Mon, 3 Jul 2017 - 10:42
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maddox
post Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 09:32
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QUOTE (Gan @ Sun, 9 Jul 2017 - 19:22) *
You've missed an obvious defence point :

No debt could possibly be due on the date stated on the claim form

CEL didn't send a parking notice until at least two works after the parking event that gave four weeks for payment
No debt therefore became due until at least six weeks after the state stated on the claim form

The interest has also therefore been miscalculated


Hi Gan

The thing is they have not stated when the date was due from on the particulars of claim. There is also no break down of the costs they have added. All it states is this point:

8. The claimant (direct/through its agents) was left with no alternative but to escalate the matter as a result of their non-payment of debt, which further increased the amount owed, in accordance with the terms of parking.

There is no figure they have given for an interest claim.


I'm considering paying of this claim at the moment. I'm getting very confused with all this and its causing quite a bit of stress!!!!!

This post has been edited by maddox: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 09:33
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Gan
post Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 10:05
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The claim form reads :

Particulars of Claim

Outstanding debt and damages
DATE-DESCRIPTION-AMOUNT-DUE DATE
(Date of parking event) Ref (PCN number) £236 (Date of parking event)

A debt can't possibly be due six weeks before they sent the parking notice

Underneath it says :

Outstanding debt and damages including 10.81 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Courts act 1984
Rate 8.00% pa from dates above to (couple of days before claim issued)

The further particulars you're quoting from are a generic template with a scanned signature with no explanation who Ashley Cohen is
Actually he's part-owner of CEL but the official searches will only show a series of shell companies

The only part of the particulars that's individual is the schedule of Information
you attack that by describing it as nothing more than a tariff or list of terms and conditions, whichever is appropriate, and say that the particulars don't explain what the driver did that entitles CEL to payment

Yes it is stressful
That's the entire purpose of the claim - an abuse of the court process to alarm you into making a payment that isn't owed, with no intention of taking it to hearing

I always state that in my CEL defences

Include every possible example of a failure to follow the BPA Code of Practice

The on-line form is nowhere near large enough to submit a comprehensive defence statement
Email the document or post it. Ask the Post office for a certificate of posting

If you email, don't forget to sign the statement

That's all you send at this stage

This post has been edited by Gan: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 10:06
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maddox
post Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 10:39
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Thanks for the reply Gan. I will defend I just got a bit stressed with it.

The Particulars of Claim I received are not laid out as you have stated above. I have attached the PoC I received below.

As you can see there is no statement of a debt being owed from any particular date


This post has been edited by maddox: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 10:52
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Gan
post Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 11:16
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I was quoting from the claim form
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 12:11
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Gan is correct on this.

They are claiming the debt was owed on that date. It could not be owed on that date. Thus the PoC is MATERIALLY wrong. OF COURSE you state this, same as everyone else does.
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maddox
post Tue, 11 Jul 2017 - 20:59
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Thank you guys I have altered my defence.

Just one more thing. Can I include this:

CEL failed to meet the requirements of BPA Code of Practice 21.1 by failing to use ANPR camera technology in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. There are no signs at the entrance of the car park telling the driver that CEL are using this technology and what they will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.

This post has been edited by maddox: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 - 08:05
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 12 Jul 2017 - 09:18
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Yes, assuming it is true.
You shoudl state that therefore there is no way a driver can be aware that any timing will be from when the vehicle entered, and not when a ticket is purchased. I would in fact say that when the ticket is purchased is when consideration is exchanged, and is whe nthe contract is formed. If there is a discrepancy between the ANPR time "entered carpark" and this ticket time, as to when the contract can be establihed, you draw the courts attention that any ambiguity must be interpreted in the consumers favour.
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maddox
post Wed, 12 Jul 2017 - 09:29
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Thanks again for the advice. I have made a couple of adjustments and have emailed my defence to the court.

Do I need to do anything else? like log back onto moneyclaim.gov.uk and check a box or make a note that I have emailed the defence over?

I just want to make sure the email is processed correctly.

Will let you all know the outcome.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 12 Jul 2017 - 10:43
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You need ot keep checking MCOLL as to the status. The next step you have to take is completing the DQ. If MCOL shows one is sent, but you dont get it within a couple days, just print your own off.

Check the status of your defence on MCOL; it should show quite quickly that your defence was submitted. You could call as well.
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maddox
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 20:22
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Hi All

I'm sure most of you a fully aware of what this is. I recently entered a defense online. It was a claim from CEL.

I was hoping it would get stayed but I have just received a Notice of proposed allocation of the small claims court

Is this something to be worried about?

I heard CEL always back down when they see a good defense but they seem to be taking things forward!

Thank you

This post has been edited by maddox: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 20:23
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 20:38
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This case? http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=114459&hl=

One case one thread, I've asked a mod to merge for you.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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maddox
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 20:53
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[attachment=50560:2.jpg]This is what I have been sent...

Thank you

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 21:38) *
This case? http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=114459&hl=

One case one thread, I've asked a mod to merge for you.


Yes that's the one.


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ostell
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 21:32
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You need to complete the form and send it to the court and a copy to the other side, as it says in the letter, and by the date it says in the letter. You seem to be ignoring it. You ignore nothing from now on in !
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 21:46
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What is it with CEL threads that no-one seems to expect a DQ, whether they are on here or on MSE? No other PPC threads get this again and again:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...el#post73056626

It's a form. It is normal. Complete it.

The MSE NEWBIES thread tells you how/which boxes to tick.

Why not send a covering letter to encourage them to discontinue it now:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...74#post73059674

Nothing new. CEL are discontinuing further down the line, which other threads tell you (like Boony513's thread and others).



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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 23:40
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File DQ

Cel discontinue later on

Done.
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maddox
post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 00:35
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Thank you.

There is a box that asks?


Do you agree to this case being referred
to the small claims mediation service?

I assume I check NO?
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 01:00
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What has your research told you about the mediation service and hkw useful it will be to you?
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 17:48
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QUOTE (maddox @ Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 01:35) *
Thank you.

There is a box that asks?


Do you agree to this case being referred
to the small claims mediation service?

I assume I check NO?


Already told you where to find the answer to every tick box.
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maddox
post Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 19:47
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Hi All


I have received a GENERAL FORM OF JUDGEMENT ORDER.

The letter states that by 14th October the claimant must send the defendant and fully pleaded particulars of claim.

We did not recieve any letter from the defendant.

Can anybody advise what should be done next??

I have attached the letter.

Thank You

This post has been edited by maddox: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 19:48
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Jlc
post Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 19:50
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You are the defendant.

QUOTE (maddox @ Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 20:47) *
Can anybody advise what should be done next??

Looks like they aren't going to supply the PoC so the claim will stop. They will have to apply to lift the stay (and pay £255 which they are unlikely to do).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 19:51


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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