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Appealing a UK cpm ticket on land they don't manage.
ben1191
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:29
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Hi,I've had trouble from these idiots for a while now where I live,I tried to find my old topic but couldn't.

I own a non sign written long wheel base Mercedes sprinter that I use for work,holidays and social use,even shopping.I park it on the t junction where I have been told via email by the agency countrywide that the council owns and manages. UK cpm have errected signs roughly 3m in the air on lampposts all across the estate and t junction as well as at the entrance to the road. Last Sunday I received a ticket over night at 04:01 AM,I want to appeal this ticket the best way I Can,I can only appeal via post so it needs to be handwritten,can anybody help me with how to word my appeal please.

Here is the email I received from the landowner/management;

We do not own any land, however we are responsible for the running of the estate which does not include the T shaped part of the road, which is Council adopted. There is no parking enforcement on this part of the estate as it does not form part of the development. The signs erected are a warning to people wishing to park within the maintained estate.

The agreement that you have with your letting agent does not transcend the law. You are actually placing the owner of the property in breach of their terms and conditions, however it is their responsibility to ensure that the letting agents form your tenancy agreement based on their Deeds, which they haven’t so therefore it would appear that your tenancy agreement is voided in parts, again I would contact them about this, there could be other parts of your tenancy agreement that are also void so it is in your interest as a tenant to review this, for your rights.



Your comment regarding being ticketed in the homeowner’s parking space is also incorrect. We would not take the homeowner to court regarding a parking ticket, however we would have grounds to take them to court if they continue to allow a tenant to park commercial vehicles on the development.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Edit: the road is Mercer close larkfield so you can Google street view it for a better idea.

This post has been edited by ben1191: Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:31
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post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:29
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peterguk
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 13:05
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QUOTE (ben1191 @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 13:58) *
I understand why they're ticketing me but they don't ownnthe land they're ticketing on as far as I'm aware. To ticket me but not cars clearly breakingnthe rules on the sign is surely discrimination.


If the road is a publically maintained highway, why do you understand why they are ticketing you?


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ben1191
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 16:23
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 14:05) *
QUOTE (ben1191 @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 13:58) *
I understand why they're ticketing me but they don't ownnthe land they're ticketing on as far as I'm aware. To ticket me but not cars clearly breakingnthe rules on the sign is surely discrimination.


If the road is a publically maintained highway, why do you understand why they are ticketing you?


I didn't really understand why ostell was telling me they're ticketing me for commercial vehicle,like he hadn't read the thread. But I understand what the ticket on my window is allegedly for... as it states on the ticket commercial vehicle...

My way of responding without being rude.
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emanresu
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 16:58
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@Ben1191

PCM can only issue tickets on private land. The image shown earlier from KCC shows the land not to be private but highway maintained at public expense - or at least what appears to be the highway. The people that know if this is private or not are either KCC Highways department or the Land Registry.

For the sake of a phone call to KCC Highways, they can tell you if the road is on the "Definitive Map" which shows all highways in Kent. It will make your life a lot easier if you can get clarification of that one question - highway or private.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ben1191
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 18:00
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I've sent an email kc highways,it said on their website I had to pay £90 for information or am I reading that wrong lol
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 19:15
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You can just go into their main offices and ask, or phone them.

No need to be doing any 'appeal' yet anyway if you only got the PCN a week ago. As long as this is YOUR VEHICLE (you said you own it so that's good, you can afford to wait a month for the Notice to Keeper, and get your ducks in a row about the land boundary).
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ben1191
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 20:57
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 20:15) *
You can just go into their main offices and ask, or phone them.

No need to be doing any 'appeal' yet anyway if you only got the PCN a week ago. As long as this is YOUR VEHICLE (you said you own it so that's good, you can afford to wait a month for the Notice to Keeper, and get your ducks in a row about the land boundary).



Yes it's my vehicle,I'm a self employed sole trader so it's rregistered to ****** flooring,but I am a single man sole trader,just what I'm registered as. Mercedes actually filled out the keepers slip for me which was quite annoying as i would have registered it to my personal name.

Will that make any difference? And yeah I have some time to get my ducks In a line aha.

If I am in the right,can I request £500 per ticket or only once?
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ostell
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 21:06
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They are ticketing because they see a large white van, which is against their "rules". It has not occured to them that a large white van is not neccesarily commercial, ie how do they define commercial. They have already admitted in the response you got that they have no control of the area.

You claim for each andevery time they misuse you data, which will be every time they get your data from the DVLA. Get that letter of to the DVLA now asking who and how many times your data has been accessed. After reading again about your registration detail you may have difficulty claiming for breach of the DPA as the van is registered to a trading name and not a person.

So report them to the police for fraudulently demanding money.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 21:17
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Lynnzer
post Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 05:52
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 22:06) *
After reading again about your registration detail you may have difficulty claiming for breach of the DPA as the van is registered to a trading name and not a person.

Doesn't matter if it's public highway. They are still accessing the DVLA when they have no reasonable cause. Just get confirmation from the council and get cracking.


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ben1191
post Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 19:07
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Thank you all for your responses,I emailed my local council to check they haven't enforced parking restrictions in my road,I'm struggling to understand what they meant by the last sentence if anybody could help me out with it.

Dear Mr Mercer

 

The Borough Council has not carried out any parking enforcement in Mercer Close. I suggest that if you have been issued with some form of enforcement action then you raise this with those that are taking the action against you, explaining that you feel they have no legal remit to do so.  You may also wish to raise this with any managing agents for the area.

 

However, from your images (attached) there is nothing that indicates the extent of highway.

Edit:not sure why they called me Mr Mercer

This post has been edited by ben1191: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 19:08
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 22:18
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They're saying they can't tell what is highway and what isn't.
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whjohnson
post Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 23:16
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You should have asked if the council own the land where you park, rather than asking 'Is the council responsible for parking enforcement'.
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emanresu
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 05:38
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Ask Highways to check their "definitive map" as that is the key source. For example, KCC have to know if they need to repair a road when it is their responsibility rather than someone elses. That's why they have this definitive map.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 05:44


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ben1191
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 08:31
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Waiting on a response from highways,got a response from the council after sending them the birdseye map and circled where I parked,this was his response:

Dear Mr ******

 

Whilst this clarifies the location, it does not clarify the extents of highway. Neither is relevant, as we have not been enforcing. You need to raise this with whoever issued the ticket.

 

 

Andy Bracey FIHE

Parking Manager

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Lynnzer
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 09:49
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QUOTE (ben1191 @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 09:31) *
Waiting on a response from highways,got a response from the council after sending them the birdseye map and circled where I parked,this was his response:

Dear Mr ******

 

Whilst this clarifies the location, it does not clarify the extents of highway. Neither is relevant, as we have not been enforcing. You need to raise this with whoever issued the ticket.

 

 

Andy Bracey FIHE

Parking Manager

WTF is the Parking Manager involved for? Has highways passed this over to them?
You need an answer from the highways dept on this. Simple question is to just ask if there ant parts of this road not in the control of the local authority. No need to mention parking.

If you're close to the council offices you could try just popping in to inspect the map.


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ben1191
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 10:29
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 10:49) *
QUOTE (ben1191 @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 09:31) *
Waiting on a response from highways,got a response from the council after sending them the birdseye map and circled where I parked,this was his response:

Dear Mr ******

 

Whilst this clarifies the location, it does not clarify the extents of highway. Neither is relevant, as we have not been enforcing. You need to raise this with whoever issued the ticket.

 

 

Andy Bracey FIHE

Parking Manager

WTF is the Parking Manager involved for? Has highways passed this over to them?
You need an answer from the highways dept on this. Simple question is to just ask if there ant parts of this road not in the control of the local authority. No need to mention parking.

If you're close to the council offices you could try just popping in to inspect the map.


I emailed the local council,they forwarded it to him.

QUOTE (ben1191 @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 11:24) *
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 10:49) *
QUOTE (ben1191 @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 09:31) *
Waiting on a response from highways,got a response from the council after sending them the birdseye map and circled where I parked,this was his response:

Dear Mr ******

 

Whilst this clarifies the location, it does not clarify the extents of highway. Neither is relevant, as we have not been enforcing. You need to raise this with whoever issued the ticket.

 

 

Andy Bracey FIHE

Parking Manager

WTF is the Parking Manager involved for? Has highways passed this over to them?
You need an answer from the highways dept on this. Simple question is to just ask if there ant parts of this road not in the control of the local authority. No need to mention parking.

If you're close to the council offices you could try just popping in to inspect the map.


I emailed the local council,they forwarded it to him.


I am still waiting for an email response from the highways team,I can't find a phone number for them.
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Lynnzer
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 10:43
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I just emailed them for you.
Perhaps as it's a new enquirer they won't mix things up.
Here's the email:
Sir, could you please advise on the status of Mercer Road, Larkfield.
Is this a road under local authority jurisdiction, ie maintainable at the public expense; or is it, or any part of it outside of that description.
Could you please advise also on any TRO's applicable to that road and provide a copy if any exist.


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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 10:43
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Ring the council and ask to be put through to them.
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ben1191
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 11:53
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 11:43) *
I just emailed them for you.
Perhaps as it's a new enquirer they won't mix things up.
Here's the email:
Sir, could you please advise on the status of Mercer Road, Larkfield.
Is this a road under local authority jurisdiction, ie maintainable at the public expense; or is it, or any part of it outside of that description.
Could you please advise also on any TRO's applicable to that road and provide a copy if any exist.

Thankyou!
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ben1191
post Wed, 14 Jun 2017 - 14:34
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Everything has gone quiet,No response from highway definitions.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 15 Jun 2017 - 07:52
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Keep chasing them.
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