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Appealing a UK cpm ticket on land they don't manage.
ben1191
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:29
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Hi,I've had trouble from these idiots for a while now where I live,I tried to find my old topic but couldn't.

I own a non sign written long wheel base Mercedes sprinter that I use for work,holidays and social use,even shopping.I park it on the t junction where I have been told via email by the agency countrywide that the council owns and manages. UK cpm have errected signs roughly 3m in the air on lampposts all across the estate and t junction as well as at the entrance to the road. Last Sunday I received a ticket over night at 04:01 AM,I want to appeal this ticket the best way I Can,I can only appeal via post so it needs to be handwritten,can anybody help me with how to word my appeal please.

Here is the email I received from the landowner/management;

We do not own any land, however we are responsible for the running of the estate which does not include the T shaped part of the road, which is Council adopted. There is no parking enforcement on this part of the estate as it does not form part of the development. The signs erected are a warning to people wishing to park within the maintained estate.

The agreement that you have with your letting agent does not transcend the law. You are actually placing the owner of the property in breach of their terms and conditions, however it is their responsibility to ensure that the letting agents form your tenancy agreement based on their Deeds, which they haven’t so therefore it would appear that your tenancy agreement is voided in parts, again I would contact them about this, there could be other parts of your tenancy agreement that are also void so it is in your interest as a tenant to review this, for your rights.



Your comment regarding being ticketed in the homeowner’s parking space is also incorrect. We would not take the homeowner to court regarding a parking ticket, however we would have grounds to take them to court if they continue to allow a tenant to park commercial vehicles on the development.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Edit: the road is Mercer close larkfield so you can Google street view it for a better idea.

This post has been edited by ben1191: Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:31
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post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:29
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Lynnzer
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 11:26
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Ref PCN *******
Please be advised that you are attempting to ticket me for parking on a private area of roadway where in fact it is public highway.
I enclose the contents of an email from the council confirming that, as well as the contents of correspondence from the managing agents of the private estate whose land you say the contravention occurred on. (obviously get these before sending)

It is evident to me that you have no authority to ticket on the public hiqhway, despite other known incidents of that nature that result from an online search of similar cases attributed to UKCPS.

As you have no authority upon the public highway, you have accessed the DVLA database for my personal details without reasonable cause and are using them unlawfully in contravention to the Data Protection Act.

You have failed to take the necessary care in your business practices and there are no circumstances where mitigating factors can assist you.
As I am now being pursued for an alleged debt without any cause at all, I now make you aware of my claim against you.

Letter before action

For the unlawful use of my personal details obtained from the DVLA where no reasonable cause is apparent I make a claim for damages to the amount of £500. Claims of a punitive nature are well supported in law, for instance in the Beavis v ParkingEye case, and I require payment to be made within 14 days of this notification.

Failure of that will result in action being taken against you without further notification and the amount will include costs and expenses being added.

I also require you to remove my details from your database as required under S10 of the Data Protection Act, and inform me of that within 21 days.

NB

You only send that if you have had a Notice to Keeper. If you haven't yet, then wait for it then send.

For your info.

ALSO

If these gits are on the land you are entitled to use as part of your lease, I would wait for the conclusion of this incident then go after them for ticketing on your allocated parking area.

You'd need to get a ticket from them first, but if/when you do let us know and also show us the lease so we can help you with it.
These companies are running rife at present, preying on residents when they have no authority so the sooner you can clear them from your own estate the better.

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Sun, 28 May 2017 - 11:32


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Gan
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 11:33
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DO NOT APPEAL THIS WINDSCREEN TICKET

Wait until UKCPM have applied to the DVLA for your details and sent you a Notice to Keeper

Report to the DVLA that they've unlawfully applied for your personal information in breach of the Data Protection Act
You want to know what sanctions the DVLA will apply

If UKCPM don't cancel the parking notice on appeal, you will be in a position to claim damages under the DPA for the misuse of your personal information
UKCPM will have little defence if they continue to pursue after you've alerted them to their mistake
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Lynnzer
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 12:40
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QUOTE (Gan @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 12:33) *
DO NOT APPEAL THIS WINDSCREEN TICKET

Wait until UKCPM have applied to the DVLA for your details and sent you a Notice to Keeper

Report to the DVLA that they've unlawfully applied for your personal information in breach of the Data Protection Act
You want to know what sanctions the DVLA will apply

If UKCPM don't cancel the parking notice on appeal, you will be in a position to claim damages under the DPA for the misuse of your personal information
UKCPM will have little defence if they continue to pursue after you've alerted them to their mistake

As per my post really.
I wouldn't appeal it though. I'd just kick them for an immediate claim for breach of the DPA once a NTK has arrived.
There's no excuse for this. Warning them at this point cannot mitigate the breach they have already incurred.

Either way, this is a claim for damages and a complaint to the DVLA and also (not that it will do any good) to the IPC.


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ben1191
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 15:48
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Thanks for your replies! I have one or two tickets from February in my dad's van so he still receives letters from the debt collectors.

My only concern is what if countrywide have got it wrong with regards to what land they run,where do I stand?
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Lynnzer
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 15:57
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QUOTE (ben1191 @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:48) *
Thanks for your replies! I have one or two tickets from February in my dad's van so he still receives letters from the debt collectors.

My only concern is what if countrywide have got it wrong with regards to what land they run,where do I stand?

And the vans were parked in the same spot at the T Junction?

You can't ignore UKCPM. They do take court action and one that doesn't haven't a response will be flagged as a good'un for them to take to court.

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Sun, 28 May 2017 - 15:57


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ben1191
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:40
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:57) *
QUOTE (ben1191 @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:48) *
Thanks for your replies! I have one or two tickets from February in my dad's van so he still receives letters from the debt collectors.

My only concern is what if countrywide have got it wrong with regards to what land they run,where do I stand?

And the vans were parked in the same spot at the T Junction?

You can't ignore UKCPM. They do take court action and one that doesn't haven't a response will be flagged as a good'un for them to take to court.


Exactly the same spots,I can't see them bothering with my dad,he hasn't paid a ticket for 10 years,They get bored of trying to find him as he has no fixed abode so is essentially a traveller.
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Lynnzer
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 17:11
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QUOTE (ben1191 @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 17:40) *
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:57) *
QUOTE (ben1191 @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:48) *
Thanks for your replies! I have one or two tickets from February in my dad's van so he still receives letters from the debt collectors.

My only concern is what if countrywide have got it wrong with regards to what land they run,where do I stand?

And the vans were parked in the same spot at the T Junction?

You can't ignore UKCPM. They do take court action and one that doesn't haven't a response will be flagged as a good'un for them to take to court.


Exactly the same spots,I can't see them bothering with my dad, he hasn't paid a ticket for 10 years, They get bored of trying to find him as he has no fixed abode so is essentially a traveller.

Maybe so BUT he may be able to put a few bob in his wallet from them. If he got the tickets in the 1st place he obviously has a postal address, or were they windscreen tickets?


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ben1191
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 17:19
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They were windscreen tickets,his van is registered to a relatives.
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Lynnzer
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 19:46
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QUOTE (ben1191 @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 18:19) *
They were windscreen tickets,his van is registered to a relatives.

I'd suggest they do a quick credit check then.
Even if dad was the person on the DVLA databse, CCJ's can still affect someone else at the same address.


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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 29 May 2017 - 08:16
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Obvious answer is: check with the council as to whether the T junction is adopted by them or not.

Not that tricky....
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ben1191
post Tue, 30 May 2017 - 17:09
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 29 May 2017 - 09:16) *
Obvious answer is: check with the council as to whether the T junction is adopted by them or not.

Not that tricky....

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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 31 May 2017 - 06:38
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Sadly that is work blocked - so I cant see it

What is the answer? Is it council owned or not?
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Umkomaas
post Wed, 31 May 2017 - 07:02
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It says:

Street Name: Mercer Close, Larkfield
USRN: 40601743
District: Tonbridge and Malling
Status: Publicly Maintainable Highway.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 31 May 2017 - 08:38
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In that case - ask the council if they have hired the PPC to ticket on that section of land, and state you have recieved tickets X, Y, Z while parked there.

WHen you get the "no, we havent" response send a letter to the PPC stating that they have been ticketing on publicly maintainable land, whci his not only an aggressive and misleading business practice, but is a breach of their code pof practice as they have no authorisation from the local council. Could be worthy of a complaint to the IPC as well - they may actually agree with this. Hard not to, but this is the IPC we're talking about here....

Yuo could wait for them to obtain your detsails from the DVLA, and when they do send teh above. You then end it with "as you have accessed the DVLA keeper database despite being fully aware you have no "reasonable cause" to do so, as this is not land you are contracted to manage, I now claim from you the sum of £250 in compensation for the distress and harassment, payable within 14 days"
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Lynnzer
post Wed, 31 May 2017 - 08:49
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 31 May 2017 - 09:38) *
In that case - ask the council if they have hired the PPC to ticket on that section of land, and state you have recieved tickets X, Y, Z while parked there.

WHen you get the "no, we havent" response send a letter to the PPC stating that they have been ticketing on publicly maintainable land, whci his not only an aggressive and misleading business practice, but is a breach of their code pof practice as they have no authorisation from the local council. Could be worthy of a complaint to the IPC as well - they may actually agree with this. Hard not to, but this is the IPC we're talking about here....

Yuo could wait for them to obtain your detsails from the DVLA, and when they do send teh above. You then end it with "as you have accessed the DVLA keeper database despite being fully aware you have no "reasonable cause" to do so, as this is not land you are contracted to manage, I now claim from you the sum of £250 in compensation for the distress and harassment, payable within 14 days"

Agreed BUT, I'd wait for the NTK then do them for £500.
Can't see how they would like this to go to court in the circumstances.


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ben1191
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 08:17
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Another ticket today at 4:24am.







The sign states no parking outside of bays,paved or hatched areas,yet in the photos I have shown every car is commuting that offence and has not been ticketed.

This post has been edited by ben1191: Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 08:12
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emanresu
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 08:38
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According to the KCC map this is highway. Suggest you contact them KCC Highways and get them to confirm it on the Definitive Map. Come back when you have it authoritatively. Until that time, it is just speculation.


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Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ostell
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 09:01
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I did note the sign also says no commercial vehicles so perhaps that is why they are ticketing you. They have also stated this in their first response to you.
Define commercial.
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ben1191
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 12:58
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 10:01) *
I did note the sign also says no commercial vehicles so perhaps that is why they are ticketing you. They have also stated this in their first response to you.
Define commercial.


I understand why they're ticketing me but they don't ownnthe land they're ticketing on as far as I'm aware. To ticket me but not cars clearly breakingnthe rules on the sign is surely discrimination.
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