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Phoenix Way PCN Rejection of Representation
feeder22
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 11:15
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Hi, I'm not sure how best to proceed and I'm looking for some help please. A little about the PCN.

Received a PCN from The London Borough of Hounslow dated: 10/01/2019 Contravention 52J: Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle.
Date of alleged contravention: 05/01/2019

I appealed stating how I'd used that Travelodge many times in the past with no problems and never actually saw the signs saying I was no longer allowed to use Phoenix Way.

I heard nothing until today when I receive a letter in the post. That letter is dated 09/04/2019. It is a Rejection of Representation letter turning down my initial appeal. Can I ask how best to proceed with this please.

Is 90 days a long time to hear back from an appeal? Do I need to bring up how they're issuing PCN for a private company or is there a better way to tackle this PCN. Thank you.



This post has been edited by feeder22: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 13:11
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post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 11:15
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makara
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 12:04
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Post up all sides of original PCN / your Appeal / Rejection notice, editing out car reg and personal details, etc.
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feeder22
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 12:28
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QUOTE (makara @ Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 13:04) *
Post up all sides of original PCN / your Appeal / Rejection notice, editing out car reg and personal details, etc.


Just waiting for them to come into my email inbox so I can edit them.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 12:36
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Subject to seeing the docs I would say that your only course is to pay at the discount or argue that the delay in responding to your appeal is unfair and prejudicial. However such a claim may be marginal:-

"The guidelines set out regarding delay are in the case of Davis - v - Kensington & Chelsea. In that case the Adjudicator stated (at p. 48) "...for my own part I consider that in the usual case representations in respect of an NTO should be considered by an authority within 2 - 3 months from receipt." The Adjudicator went on to say, "However, again, thereafter, it would still be open to the authority to show that the delay in considering the representations was not unreasonable in all of the circumstances. That may be a difficult task, as the consideration of representations is likely to be entirely within their own hands: but, for example...a particular case may require further investigation (into the facts and/or legal issues) and such investigation may mean that a period of over 2 - 3 months would be quite reasonable."

The key to a delay case is whether there was an explanation for the delay--if the Council's letter apologises but doesn't account for the delay I might risk the full amount (remember, not my money!)

Mick
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feeder22
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 13:12
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Pictures have now been attached to the original post.
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feeder22
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 16:26
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Having had a look around it seems Hounslow Council have no right issuing these types of PCN in the first place due to the road related to the PCN (Phoenix Way) being private property owned by the service station. How best can I put forward this argument to the appeals process?
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 18:06
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There is a successful case in the sticky thread but I believe that may have been discounted nowadays; with several subsequent decisions going the Councils way.

Mick
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feeder22
post Fri, 12 Apr 2019 - 18:40
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Thank you for taking the time to reply to me Mad Mick V. Is there nothing I can do in regards to this PCN?

I'll pay it threw gritted teeth. Just feel it is unfair as the signage is poor and not best seen at night and I was using the hotel on the service station.
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feeder22
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 08:28
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Lookng at the statement of Phoenix Way enforcement as displayed on the Hounslow Councils website I came across the following - 'Members of the public are warned that proceeding to use Phoenix Way as an informal motorway junction will result in penalties of up to £130.'

That leads me to believe the sole purpose of the operation is to prevent members of the public using Phoenix way as a motorway junction.

Could I base my argument on that statement alone as a grounds for appeal with London Tribunals?

I can prove I was staying at the Hotel therefore not using Phoenix way as an informal motorway junction.
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 10:24
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No----the junction statement or the hotel stay won't wash.

If you are determined to try an appeal this is the case I alluded to:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1448120

I think overtaken by subsequent cases but they may c*ck -up their response which would give us extra leverage.

Mick
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feeder22
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 19:14
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I'll just swallow this but thank you for your help Mick
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cp8759
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 19:47
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 11:24) *
No----the junction statement or the hotel stay won't wash.

If you are determined to try an appeal this is the case I alluded to:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1448120

I think overtaken by subsequent cases but they may c*ck -up their response which would give us extra leverage.

Mick

I'm afraid to say the council have put together a compelling rebuttal in their latest evidence packs, basically proving the signs are on Phoenix Way and they match up with the TMO. Paying the discount is a sensible option.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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