PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

PCN while unloading, I've got a pcn in Hampstead.
romantiku
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 21:17
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 May 2017
Member No.: 92,126



Hi everyone,

I've got a PCN in Hampstead couple of weeks ago.
There is a parking with single 'yellow line'. I was taking some materials to my job and when I came back for about 10min. I had this penalty issued. (you can see the time on the pictures).

I did a challenge and they send me this .pdf file. The parking is not as they described. Around Hampstead is not allowed up to 6pm and not 8pm. Also, where I had parked is behind the buildings and is no sign to tell how much I am allowed to stay so I thought I can stay up to 20 min. (single yellow line rules I think are up to 20min).

Any help will really appreciate it.

Best regards
Ervin

Attached File(s)
Attached File  04723590.pdf ( 737.9K ) Number of downloads: 49
Attached File  PCN_Challenge_CU49028709_Date_28_10_2017_Time_18_26_24.pdf ( 6.78K ) Number of downloads: 66
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 13)
Advertisement
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 21:17
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
stamfordman
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 21:36
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,521
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



They say "...your vehicle was observed for over a period of 43 minutes" - is this nonsense?

Were you delivering as a business and do you have a delivery note? They will cancel if you can prove business loading at least, as they say (but even private loading is an exemption).

It does sound though like you left the van for a while unnecessarily but their rejection does give you a get out for business purposes.

Post the PCN.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 22:11
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 22:08
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,243
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (romantiku @ Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 21:17) *
where I had parked is behind the buildings and is no sign to tell how much I am allowed to stay so I thought I can stay up to 20 min. (single yellow line rules I think are up to 20min).


There is no statutory time you can be parked on a SYL.

Did you know you were in a CPZ? Are you familiar with CPZs?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
romantiku
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 22:36
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 May 2017
Member No.: 92,126



@stamfordman.
I will attach a picture to this post. Regarding the timing. If you can see the pictures, they are all done within 1min. Honestly, I am not sure how long I was there but I have been to the van every 10 min to get materials out.
I don't really have a delivery receipt as I'm a builder, not a delivery? any Idea? what about receipt form builder depot?

@peterguk.
I think CPZ means controlled parking zones? I don't know much about this mate. I have been there a couple of months ago doing a job. I left the van in the same place all day and haven't got a pcn.
Here is the google map link: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir//Back+Ln,...33;2d51.5572482


Many thanks in advance
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 22:45
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,243
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



PCN says van observed parked from 09.20 to 10.03. Is this correct?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 22:46


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 22:46
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,472
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



I see you mention you are a builder. So if you were using your van as a mobile stores whilst doing the building work, and coming back every so often to get stuff or put it back in the van, you'll lose an appeal. Loading must have a start and an end with no other activities in the middle and take only as long as necessary. Camden say you were observed for 43 minutes ! If you are going to win this, you have to refute their evidence. I have to say the CEO was remarkably tolerant waiting this long before issuing a PCN. Normally where a builder needs to park up near the place of work, a permit has to be bought and displayed. Yes, they want money for this, naturally !!

I went down the whole of Back Lane using GSV dated July 2016 and it is double-yellow lines all the way unless something has changed since, so its a 24x7 No Waiting restriction. Camden are actually wrong in their letter rejecting your reps, as they say you were on a single-yellow line, but the photos show otherwise. In places like this that are very tight you are lucky not to get towed away.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 22:56
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
romantiku
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 23:02
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 May 2017
Member No.: 92,126



The van was removed around 9:30 and I came back around 10 am.
I think the CEO has made a note when he saw my van parked and when he came back at 10:05 he issued the penalty straight away as he thought that I have been parked there all the time.

I'm not here to lie but to ask for help.

The parking has a single yellow line and bearly can be seen now.

Thanks for your responses though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 23:21
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,472
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



QUOTE (romantiku @ Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 23:02) *
The van was removed around 9:30 and I came back around 10 am.
I think the CEO has made a note when he saw my van parked and when he came back at 10:05 he issued the penalty straight away as he thought that I have been parked there all the time.

I'm not here to lie but to ask for help.

The parking has a single yellow line and bearly can be seen now.

Thanks for your responses though.


There is no question of you lying here at all. The problem is even if you departed and came back, the yellow lines applied, but the loading exemption also applied. That is the exemption that will get the PCN cancelled if you can show that this was why you were there, and only for that reason. In an appeal at London Tribunals, the only place you'll get a fair hearing, you have to refute their version of events and show that you were engaged in loading/unloading. It has been an exemption ever since yellow lines came in decades ago.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 - 23:22
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 09:00
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,521
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



Did you leave to get some supplies and do you have a timed receipt? It probably won't do if it was a packet of screws though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
romantiku
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 21:21
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 May 2017
Member No.: 92,126



Can I challenge this PCN again through the Camden website or is there any other step before going to court?

PS: I don't have a receipt for the time I was there but have receipt of around 200£ materials from builder depot.

Best wishes for all the replays.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 22:06
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,472
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



You can submit a 2nd informal rep, but they may not reply to it, and anyway, almost all informal reps get a Fob-Off letter to "encourage" you to cough-up.

If you're sure of your ground, stand your ground, and wait for the Notice to Owner and then put your reps in again.This time they'll be looked at more carefully, as if they reject they know you'll go to London Tribunals which costs them money, (about £30) and if you win it's them to find it ! Your appeal will need to claim the loading exemption, and the £200 bill for materials should have a time and date stamp on it.

The only downside is you'll have to risk the full PCN penalty as the discount option will have gone.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 22:09
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 22:11
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,819
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



But will you?

The next stage is that a demand for payment, Notice to Owner, is sent to the registered keeper NOT the driver.

Are you the registered keeper or is this a company or lease company?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
romantiku
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 22:49
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 May 2017
Member No.: 92,126



Thanks for the replays
I did a research and yes! #Incandescent you're right. If I lose again, I'll have to pay the full amount.

Where I was parked, you can barely see the yellow line. Second: There is no CPZ sign. The sign is way down which has nothing to do with the space I had parked. They mentioned on the form "Controlled parking zones are described in the Highway Code. The restrictions on single
yellow lines within these zones are indicated by time plates displayed at all entry points to the
CPZ, and it is not possible to enter the zone without passing one." I think this is not said right. There are thousands of CPZ zones with free parking.

#hcandersen
I want to give another try. I've got pcn before as well. Is not the first but I think they had to cancel this.
Both ltd company and the van are in my name only.

Give your opinion ( pay/refuse ).

Best regards

This post has been edited by romantiku: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 22:51
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 23:47
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,472
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



It's your call, but if you really were just unloading more material, then go for it. However if you unloaded and then did some building work afterwards leaving the van still parked-up, you're toast, I'm afraid.

If you were doing building work there some of the time, where did you park the van ?

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 23:49
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 15th December 2018 - 19:36
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.