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Appealing a UK cpm ticket on land they don't manage.
ben1191
post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:29
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Hi,I've had trouble from these idiots for a while now where I live,I tried to find my old topic but couldn't.

I own a non sign written long wheel base Mercedes sprinter that I use for work,holidays and social use,even shopping.I park it on the t junction where I have been told via email by the agency countrywide that the council owns and manages. UK cpm have errected signs roughly 3m in the air on lampposts all across the estate and t junction as well as at the entrance to the road. Last Sunday I received a ticket over night at 04:01 AM,I want to appeal this ticket the best way I Can,I can only appeal via post so it needs to be handwritten,can anybody help me with how to word my appeal please.

Here is the email I received from the landowner/management;

We do not own any land, however we are responsible for the running of the estate which does not include the T shaped part of the road, which is Council adopted. There is no parking enforcement on this part of the estate as it does not form part of the development. The signs erected are a warning to people wishing to park within the maintained estate.

The agreement that you have with your letting agent does not transcend the law. You are actually placing the owner of the property in breach of their terms and conditions, however it is their responsibility to ensure that the letting agents form your tenancy agreement based on their Deeds, which they haven’t so therefore it would appear that your tenancy agreement is voided in parts, again I would contact them about this, there could be other parts of your tenancy agreement that are also void so it is in your interest as a tenant to review this, for your rights.



Your comment regarding being ticketed in the homeowner’s parking space is also incorrect. We would not take the homeowner to court regarding a parking ticket, however we would have grounds to take them to court if they continue to allow a tenant to park commercial vehicles on the development.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Edit: the road is Mercer close larkfield so you can Google street view it for a better idea.

This post has been edited by ben1191: Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:31
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post Sun, 28 May 2017 - 09:29
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ben1191
post Sat, 17 Jun 2017 - 15:38
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So I've just gone to my van today and noticed the signs have been taken down! I have not said a word to cpm so the council must have contacted them ?
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 17 Jun 2017 - 22:19
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Yay!

Lynnzer may well have helped here, with his email, below. Now you need proof from the Council as to any action taken/a copy of any communication sent to UKCPM about Mercer Road. If you can get proof that the Council told UKCPM to ''get orf moi laaand'' then you'll have evidence and grounds to sue for compensation for this ticket. And you will be able to dob them in to the DVLA.

QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 11:43) *
I just emailed them for you.
Perhaps as it's a new enquirer they won't mix things up.
Here's the email:
Sir, could you please advise on the status of Mercer Road, Larkfield.
Is this a road under local authority jurisdiction, ie maintainable at the public expense; or is it, or any part of it outside of that description.
Could you please advise also on any TRO's applicable to that road and provide a copy if any exist.



You do need to address this trash from the Managing Agents though, looks like they are taking it upon themselves to give ill-informed legal advice on tenancy agreements:

QUOTE
''it would appear that your tenancy agreement is voided in parts, again I would contact them about this, there could be other parts of your tenancy agreement that are also void so it is in your interest as a tenant to review this, for your rights.''


This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 - 22:22
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ben1191
post Sun, 18 Jun 2017 - 06:15
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Well my first ticket was given on 21/05 so I'm expecting a ntk on my birthday before I can sue for data protection lol
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Lynnzer
post Mon, 19 Jun 2017 - 15:39
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Just in. My request for info from the council.
I acknowledge receipt of your emails dated 6 June and 14 June, which have been logged with the Enquiry Reference of TS/2017/294.

Please accept my apologies for the late response. Your emails appear to have mistakenly been sent to our Waste section and due to various staff absences have only been forwarded to us today.

Status of Mercer Close, Larkfield
We understand that some sections of Mercer Close are highway land and some sections are privately owned. We do not hold information relating to the extents of highway land.

Kent County Council are the highway authority and will be able to assist you with requests for the extents of highway land. The extents of privately owned land are available from Land Registry. If there is a management company for Mercer Close, they may also be able to assist you, we do not hold information relating to management companies for privately owned land.

Traffic Regulation Orders for Mercer Close
There are no Traffic Regulation Orders currently in place for the public highway/adopted section of Mercer Close.

Please note that the land owner, or manager of the area, may wish to arrange their own parking controls, and enforcement, on land that they own.



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ben1191
post Tue, 20 Jun 2017 - 14:52
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They've removed the signs from the T junction which is where the management company have told me they dont have any enforcement there,the photo someone put in here also shows that t junction as highway land.

Cpm are wrong,otherwise why take the signs down.
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emanresu
post Tue, 20 Jun 2017 - 18:45
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Go back to the Managing Agents and get them to demarcate it - telling them that ticketing on the highway is fraud so they better get it right.

Get them to put their neck in a noose rather than you running around.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ben1191
post Mon, 26 Jun 2017 - 16:52
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Received the ntk today,using the template provided in post 2,I have printed off the map of the road that was posted in here,and an email from the land management and the council.

Is there anything I should add to the template provided or anything I shouldn't say? Thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 27 Jun 2017 - 06:33
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Yes, you state that you have definitive proof they are ticketing on land that they are not authorised to issue parking notices to. If the ticket is not immediately cancelled, your details removed from their systems, and a payment of £250 made to cover their misuse of your data (breach of data proteciton act stuff) you will seek to obtain a couert order to that effect.

They knew they shouldnt operate there, so I would be incliined to hit them hard.
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ben1191
post Sat, 15 Jul 2017 - 13:29
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Just come back from holiday,i sent the appeal with all the proof and printouts on tuesday the 27th of june,ive come back to find no response except another ntk for the second ticket telling me i now owe £100 as im out of the 14 day period.

What should i do?

This post has been edited by ben1191: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 - 14:24
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whjohnson
post Sat, 15 Jul 2017 - 17:36
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If it ticket was issued in the same place as your last one, then do the same as you have already done.
(Sorry, not read right through)
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ManxRed
post Sat, 15 Jul 2017 - 22:41
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Wait for others, but I'd be considering a Letter Before Claim to both the Managing Agent and the PPC (tell them you consider them both to be 'jointly and severally liable') for £250 due to misuse of your personal data under the Data Protection Act.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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ben1191
post Thu, 20 Jul 2017 - 17:36
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My father has received a court letter for a ticket in november that was issued on council land. I called the managing agency countrywide and spoke to scott mculloch,he has told me the t junction is council land and that he has told them multiple times not to ticket there,and they do it and claim it was a mistake,he has told me he will contact them today and speak to them about cancelling all tickets and court action.

I have the defence and counterclaim form infront of me,how should i proceed
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Lynnzer
post Thu, 20 Jul 2017 - 17:55
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QUOTE (ben1191 @ Thu, 20 Jul 2017 - 18:36) *
My father has received a court letter for a ticket in november that was issued on council land. I called the managing agency countrywide and spoke to scott mculloch,he has told me the t junction is council land and that he has told them multiple times not to ticket there,and they do it and claim it was a mistake,he has told me he will contact them today and speak to them about cancelling all tickets and court action.

I have the defence and counterclaim form in front of me,how should i proceed

You will need to proceed on the basis that they'll just bluster on with.
If you could get written confirmation, even by email, from the council that's it's public land then just go onto the claim against them, even if they drop their own claim.


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ben1191
post Thu, 20 Jul 2017 - 18:18
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My initial findings suggest that Mercer Close, Larkfield was adopted by Kent County Council in 2011. The Close also appears to be publicly maintainable highway and not deemed private land. The issue of Fixed Penalty Notices, so far as I am aware can only be issue by a Local Authority, where a valid Traffic Regulation Order has been written.

That is from the highways definitions team,i have resent an email to them and have the day off tomorrow to chase it all up.
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ben1191
post Fri, 21 Jul 2017 - 09:25
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Should i fill out the defence form less formally than when appealing as there isnt much room to fill in?
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ben1191
post Fri, 21 Jul 2017 - 09:49
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Ive just got off the phone to kcc,they have confirmed that the t junction is public highway including the pavement,to get it in writing will cost me £90 from the highways definition team,which is more than the original ticket...
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ostell
post Fri, 21 Jul 2017 - 10:21
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OK then try from another direction. Contact your local councillor and complain that someone is illegally ticketing vehicles when the road is a public road. Tell the councillor that this is plain and simple fraud.
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Gan
post Fri, 21 Jul 2017 - 11:00
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QUOTE (ben1191 @ Fri, 21 Jul 2017 - 10:25) *
Should i fill out the defence form less formally than when appealing as there isnt much room to fill in?

The space on the form is inadequate for anything but the most basic of defences, especially if you're making the counter-claim
You don't need the document yet but could include the £90 charge in your costs

Write a full document and send it as a pdf but make sure you sign it

Thought for comments :

If the OP wants to ensure that the council is really annoyed by UKCPM, instead of paying £90 for the document, how about a witness summons for the head of the Highways Department ?

This post has been edited by Gan: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 - 11:04
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OwlGirl
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 12:06
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OP

I drive the owl van you've probably seen round Mercer close & have also received a court letter over 2 accounts of parking my van here.

Currently getting my defence together but have ticked the box 'intend to defend this claim in full'...

When did you speak to Scott? I have also been in contact with him but when we spoke he wasn't aware people were getting ticketed on Mercer Close.

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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 14:07
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You two should get together and also knock on doors of neighbours to see if you are the only two at this stage.

Go to your MP about this.

And I would look to include a counter-claim in both your defences. So run your defence wordings by us/MSE first!

OwlGirl, do we assume you are this MSE poster?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5682929

We will all follow your cases with interest and hope you do both counter-claim. I have some wording for a counter-claim I wrote for a couple of people in a similar position, if one of you wants to pm me.

I post as Coupon-mad on MSE but I block pm's on there, but not here (within reason).
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