[NIP Wizard] Identify Driver |
[NIP Wizard] Identify Driver |
Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 18:14
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 11 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,717 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - July 2019 Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 2 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A90 Kirkcaldy to Dunfermline Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I am the keeper but wasn’t the driver. I could be one of only two other people. Neither can remember who was driving. The both look very similar. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - No Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 18:14:25 +0000 |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 18:14
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 18:25
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#2
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 11 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,717 |
Hi everyone, thanks for any advice. I wasn’t driving but am RK. It can only be one of two other drivers, neither of whom can remember who was driving. They are physically similar. I have done nothing. What if anything should I do?
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 18:35
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
...the one who wasn’t texting at the time was the driver. Are you being serious? They are physically similar. I have done nothing. What if anything should I do? I'm not sure of the relevance of being physically similar? If you do nothing then you'll have a slam dunk conviction - 6 points and a large fine. You are to use reasonable diligence to identify and name the driver - there is a statutory defence that if you did not know who was driving nor could identify them with the aforementioned diligence. In reality this is not an easy task. What's the alleged offence? This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 18:39 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:16
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 11 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,717 |
Thanks everyone. Do I write to the BiB and tell them I need more to identify the driver e.f. Photos etc? If so how long do I wait before doing this? I basically want this to go away. Can I stall for 6 months?
None of us have a clue who was driving but it definitely wasn’t me. Both possibles are family but not siblings or twins. Sorry if these are basic questions. I did have some speeding points years ago but none for a long time and I’m sure tactics have changed. Thanks again! |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:19
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 622 Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,668 |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:19
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Well you see if they will cooperate in trying to identify the driver, if one is ‘covering their ass’ point out you risk 6 points if you can’t identify the driver.
When replying you MUST give full details of both possible drivers if you still haven’t been able to identify one. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:30 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:22
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,487 |
the father has no automotive right to check their phones. OP can’t force an admission out of them, or hack their phones to get the data, but the onus is on OP to show which steps s/he took that s/he could reasonably be expected to take. Had our chap been able to tell us that he had asked his lads to check, but they had refused, then his claim to have used reasonable diligence would have been rather more compelling. He didn’t get convicted for having recalcitrant sons, but for not making sufficient effort. |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:29
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 11 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,717 |
Ok, sorry if I’m being dim here. I’m only asking what my options are. If I send the form back it will be rejected as the driver is not the same gender as me. I need more to identify who it was. Should I write to the issuer asking for more to help me identify after 28 days or wait til I get a reminder?
If the evidence I do get is inconclusive what do I do then other than check mobile phone data (assuming location etc is turned on)? Genuinely asking for advice here. |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:31
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:32
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
What you do is start carrying out reasonable diligence, ask for help from the camera office but start doing anything else straight away.
If it’s addressed to you, you are the one replying whether you were driving or not! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:45
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
And you can’t stall those 28 days.
Doing nothing will almost certainly be a slam dunk conviction. And as noted you can be convicted even if you weren’t driving. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 20:34
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
If I send the form back it will be rejected as the driver is not the same gender as me. What? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 08:09
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 11 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,717 |
I meant if I sign and return the form when I wasn’t driving the photo evidence they claim to have will not be me as I’m male and the likely driver is female!
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 09:19
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
The request is to name who was the driver, not who wasn't.
One way of reading your post was that if you named yourself as driving (male) and the photo shows a female (if frontal). That would be an extremely bad thing to do (potentiality time in jail). The best approach would be to discuss with the 2 potential drivers who was most likely driving, check any relevant information (phone GPS for example) and agree who the most likely driver was. At the very least you could name both drivers but this doesn't strictly discharge your responsibility to unequivocally name the driver. They may pursue the s172 offence or send requests to both potential drivers - in theory you could all get 6 points that way. You always have the option to use the statutory defence as long as you can convince them that your reasonable diligence could not identify the driver. But this isn't going to go away easily. Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A90 Kirkcaldy to Dunfermline Shouldn't that be the A92? The locus is fairly vague too? This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 09:20 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 09:20
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
As above
You need to make it very clear to the two possible drivers that this is a way for them to BOTH get 6 points and a £500 fine. This may focus their minds a little ALso point out that, if you cannot trust them to nominate a driver, you may be less willing to allow them use of, at a guess, your vehicle.... |
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 09:36
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I meant if I sign and return the form when I wasn’t driving the photo evidence they claim to have will not be me as I’m male and the likely driver is female! Presumably though you would not be naming yourself as the driver, since you weren’t driving? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 19:16
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
All you need to do is use reasonable diligence to identify the driver. If you show you have (really) done this, and as you weren't driving in any event, it seems unlikely the police would come after you. It's far more likely they'll send new s172 notices to the two likely drivers.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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