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Ticket for a space I already pay for
Phaedra
post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 07:17
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So I have received now two tickets for a space that I pay for in advance. It is a private carpark belonging to a flat block and I pay every quarter in full in advance and have receipts. There is a private parking company (part of the BPA) that requires permits visible. I got these tickets when my permit was on the armrest between the driver and passenger seats, it was very visible, I don't have tinted windows. When it's on the dashboard, it runs the risk of slipping into the large gap between the glass and the dash, or flying out the window in the wind.
My question is: is this enforceable? I have already paid for the space so the permit should not even be necessary. Even so - it *was* visible. I think I have a good argument if this goes to court - there is no cost to the landowner whatsoever as it is my permenant rented space.
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post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 07:17
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Croupe
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 17:26
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And should I CC in PP when I send the letter?
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Redivi
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 17:33
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QUOTE (Croupe @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 18:26) *
And should I CC in PP when I send the letter?

No

All correspondence (except an SAR request) is only sent to the solicitor when one has been employed
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Croupe
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 12:13
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Sending this today, let me know your thoughts!:

Dear Sir/Madam

Ref XXXXXX

Thank You for your letter dated XXXXXXX following my response to your Letter Before Claim.

I strongly dispute your statement that the driver's “only right to enter the land in question is on the terms and conditions that apply”. This is simply not the case. I had an existing rental agreement directly with the freeholder for the car parking space I was parked in.

I take issue with the following assertion: "It is unnecessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance." At the date in question, I was the landholder. I entered into a contract with the freeholder for parking, which was duly paid. Your client has nothing to offer as they are not the freeholder nor the landholder. They are, in fact, a trespasser on my land on the date in question.

I have attached a copy of the relevant invoice and confirmation from the freeholder that this invoice was paid in full.

I also dispute a number of further points in your letter. They are, however, irrelevant to the central issue that I have never willingly entered into any contract with your client and have no liability in regards to it. At time of parking, a direct agreement was in place with the freeholder. The fact that your client evidently does not operate a white-list for the landowners on this site is considerably unreasonable and should this proceed further I will invite the court to recognise this.

For the avoidance of doubt, I will not make any payment. Payment for this space was made in full in advance of parking.

Continued harassment from your company will be considered both vexatious and unreasonable. Should your client continue to legal action, I will very seriously consider a counter claim for their trespass on the land that I had rented as land-owner.

Yours Faithfully
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 12:38
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Land holder
You are never the owner of the land unless you buy it from them.
You are the land-holder
Dont "very seriously" consider. STate you WILL counterclaim for trespass, using the value of their PCN as the basis for your counterclaim - given they have valued the land as being worth X per day, that is how much you are charging them.
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Redivi
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 12:54
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Or I reserve my rights regarding a counter-claim for trespass against your client
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Croupe
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 15:39
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Thanks both. As has been mentioned before by The Slithy Tove - BWL are "almost guaranteed to take it to court". Therefore I need to start thinking about defence. My main points will be of course the above points - I had paid already and was the land-holder.
Is there further clout I can add? Apologies I am not familair with POFA so not sure if this has been breached...
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 06:59
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Well POFA only matters if the drivers identity is unknown. Is it?

If you are "Not sure" then you know what you need to do - find out smile.gif
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Croupe
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 08:02
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Thanks Nosferatu, I will look at the correspondance. I do not believe the driver identity was divulged.

Here is the revised letter to be sent today. Does anyone have any experience of what the next step is?


Thank You for your letter dated XXXXXXXXX following my response to your Letter Before Claim.

I strongly dispute your statement that the driver's “only right…to enter the land in question are on the terms and conditions which apply”. This is simply not the case. I had an existing rental agreement directly with the freeholder for the car parking space the car was was parked in. I have repeatedly asserted this and provided proof.

I take issue with the following assertion: "It is unnecessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance." At the date in question, I was the landholder. I entered into a contract with the freeholder for the parking space, which was duly paid. Your client has nothing to offer as they are not the freeholder nor the landholder. They are, in fact, a trespasser on my land on the date in question.

I have again attached a copy of the relevant invoice and confirmation from the freeholder that this invoice was paid in full.

I also dispute a number of further points in your letter. They are, however, irrelevant to the central issue that this space was rented and the right to enter the land and park in this space was expressly sanctioned by the freeholder who had a commercial interest in the rental of the parking space. Your client is currently interfering with this commercial interest and thus jeopardizing it. The fact that your client evidently does not operate a white-list for the landholders on this site is considerably unreasonable and should this proceed further I will invite the court to recognise this.

For the avoidance of doubt, I will not make any payment. Payment for this space was made in full.

Continued harassment from your company will be considered both vexatious and unreasonable. Should your client continue to legal action, I will counter claim for their trespass on the land that I had rented as landholder, using the value of their PCN as the basis for the counterclaim.

Yours Faithfully
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 08:09
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YEs, the next ste is, unless they actually bother to read, is they will issue a claim

You will be able to find dozens of threads here talking about it

Go and read the MSE Forums NEWBIES thread, POST TWO ONLY, which deals with the court claim process. You MUST use this as a resource for a court claim because it details every step of the formal legal process. You cannot step outside of process.
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Lynnzer
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 10:25
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QUOTE (Croupe @ Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 09:02) *
.

Continued harassment from your company will be considered both vexatious and unreasonable. Should your client continue to legal action, I will counter claim for vexatious and unreasonable behaviour for the stress, worry and problems you have brought to me and my family, and for pursuing business interests on land for which I am the landholder and without any authority from me to do so.
Your alleged rights to make me pay for something I already have right of use of, cannot constitute a contract. You can offer me nothing and have no right to lay a claim of trespass as only the landholder can take that action. I am the landholder.
Please take note that a continuance of this fraudulent claim will be resisted and will be presented for what it is: FRAUD
Yours Faithfully

amended.
There's another topic on forum of the victim of one of these sort of scams laying a private prosecution for harassment.
I think you have a solid reason to make a similar prosecution for fraud in this situation. Let them eat $hit in a magistrates court eh?

Also this
http://www.mccue-law.com/wp-content/upload...rosecution1.pdf

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 10:48


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Croupe
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 10:32
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Thanks Nosferatu.
I note that it says:

"If you get court claim, do not panic, we assist people & some 99% of cases here, win!

ALMOST NO-ONE REPORTS A LOSS - YOU DON'T NEED TO WASTE MONEY ON A SOLICITOR OR ANY COMPANY - WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING, WE HAVE A HIGHER SUCCESS RATE THAN ANYWHERE, AND WE HELP FOR FREE."

Should I start a thread on there if it goes to a formal court claim? I am heartened by the above opimism!
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 11:01
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If you do open a thread there, LINK HERE so people can see the history.

You can also keep posting here.
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Croupe
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 11:21
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Thanks, I will wait to see if the court papers arrive, and then start a thread over there regarding the Defence.
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Croupe
post Fri, 19 Jul 2019 - 13:29
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So I have now received a County Court Claim Form. I am sending the AOS today.
Firstly I should say that I have read the Newbies thread on MSE three times over and also spent since 7am this morning reading many of the other threads on cases and example defences – but none of them (that I can find so far) seem to be applicable to my situation/case. the closest ones are about flat-block residents' allocated spaces. My situation differs as it was the Estate Agent I worked for that paid the freeholder in advance for the space. I, as an employee, had authority to park there.

I am suddenly determined to fight it till the end more than ever, I haven't come this far to give in to them now, but need some advice on what defence points to focus on.

Is this a lost cause now? Is it very likely the judge will simply rule that the permit should have been displayed on the windscreen - end of story?

Should anyone want a recap on this all to prevent reading back through the case - I am happy to post one.

Again - I thank all of you in advance for any help that can be given!
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