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NCP London Underground PCN - what to do?
pepperonimilksha...
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:25
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I am the registered keeper and received the attached Notice to Keeper in the post.
It says the car was parked outside of the marked bays in an NCP operated car park attached to a London tube station. I have looked at the photographic evidence and it looks like there is an extra car on each row - so my car is not the only one.
A number of people have access to my keys and nobody has admitted to driving it. As far as I knew, it was parked at a friend's house while I was at work and when i came home, it was where I had left it. i can only assume, someone has helped themselves and gone out to run an errand during the day.
I did also find the pay and display parking ticket for the day in question on my windscreen, so whoever it was did pay to park there. However I never got the original PCN left on the windscreen.
The Notice to Keeper is telling me to do one of three things.
I understand that usually NCP offer a reduced rate of £60 for paying within 14 days - this is not mentioned anywhere on the Notice to Keeper. I read something somewhere about some required information to be included in a Notice to Keeper for it to be enforceable?
Does anyone have any advice on what to do about this please?
Many thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by pepperonimilkshake: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:33
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post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:25
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ostell
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:32
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Check if the car park is a TfL car park operated by NCP. If it is then byelaws apply and the keeper cannot be held liable using POFA
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pepperonimilksha...
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:37
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It is an LUL station with NCP as the official parking provider for London Underground.
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ostell
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:39
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That's not what I asked. Is the car park owned by LU and NCP tun it for them.

Does it mention byelaws on the site anywhere?

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:40
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pepperonimilksha...
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:43
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Sorry that's what I meant to say - it is an LU owned car park.
Should I reply to them? If so, what should I say?

This post has been edited by pepperonimilkshake: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:47
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Redivi
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:56
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Dear Sir

Ref ****

I was not the driver of the vehicle
The location is not relevant land in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act and your company has no right to recover payment from me as the registered keeper

The Parking Notice must therefore be cancelled

Yours Faithfully

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bobthesod
post Tue, 6 Feb 2018 - 19:09
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IIRC there is a site that gives all the TfL owned car parks..due to old age! iu have forgotten where, but it did crop up on another TfL park i
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pepperonimilksha...
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 10:57
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Bobthesod the end of your message has cut off....

What does IIRC stand for?
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Jlc
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 11:07
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If I Recall Correctly


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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pepperonimilksha...
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:06
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Thanks.

I saw another recent thread about byelaws and whether the ppc chooses criminal or civil route etc. But I don't fully understand. I have never had a ticket before.

Is anyone able to spell this out for me very simply please?

Also if I respond with above suggestion, is this the only option? Is there anything else I should include?

Thanks



Also can I ask what happens if I write to them after the 28 days? Is this an issue?

The date on the notice is about a week before I received it so want to check.
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Redivi
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:33
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The Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) allows parking companies to recover payments from the registered keeper if they don't know who was driving
As it's uncommon to make one person responsible for contracts or trespass by another, there are conditions to be met

The first condition is that the location is covered by the Act
In general it's not covered if the driver's actions are already regulated by other legislation such as byelaws or council traffic orders

Railway property is covered by the Railway Byelaws and offences can be prosecuted by the magistrates
Some parking companies issue Penalty Notices as an offer not to let the railway company prosecute the vehicle's owner in the Magistrates Court for a criminal offence
They pretend that it's an offence not to pay the Penalty Notice and omit to mention that only the driver can be prosecuted
It's a frightening threat but, with very few exceptions, an empty one
They don't receive the payment if there's a prosecution and, after six months, it is impossible to prosecute

NCP prefer to issue Parking Notices under contract law
This allows them to pursue the matter for six years but they never have any right under POFA to recover the payment from the registered keeper if he wasn't driving

The short letter I suggested can be sent at any time, not just within 28 days
It's not an appeal; it's telling them a fact of life
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ostell
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:39
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So here we are 11 days later asking if you should respond with the response in post #6 Sheeesh...

After the 28 days they may just refuse to respond. This is byelaws land, there is no keeper liability only the magistrates court and that option expires after 6 months. The intention is to keep them busy for 6 months then there is no longer an option for magistrates. If it goes to magistrates then they don't get paid.

Get out of this thread and look at other railway/byelaw threads.

Come back whn you get a response.
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Redivi
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:44
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This is an NCP Parking Notice with the six years limit

It says that if unpaid they will refer it to a debt collector to chase the driver

Very naughty phrase "We understand you to be the driver"

I would therefore rephrase a sentence in that letter

Contrary to your unfounded and incorrect assertion, I was not the driver of the vehicle

This post has been edited by Redivi: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 17:06
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Jlc
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 14:08
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:44) *
Very naughty phrase "We understand you to be the driver"

Not that NCP go to court (currently) but they could argue that the keeper didn't deny this and/or provide the details. Balance of probabilities and all that...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Redivi
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 14:38
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That was my theory

"Contrary to your ..." makes the point doubly clear
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 16:06
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QUOTE
This is an NCP Parking Notice with the six months limit
No six month limit to a contractual charge though. This is only a parking charge.

6 months sure only really applies to Indigo and CP Plus at stations (and UKPPO at Newcastle Airport?) who call their PCNs penalties.
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Redivi
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 17:07
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Thanks SRM

It was a typo that I was about to correct and got distracted
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