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Parking on dropped kerb, Council PCN
KipDFaith
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:42
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I have been directed to this site to seek advise on a PCN I received from Stoke City Council.
The wording on the PCN states that: "a penalty charge was payable Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway cycle track or verge lowered to meet the level of the carriageway". The PCN was issued on Gimson Street, Stoke on Trent.

I think the charge is ridiculous as my bumper covered possibly about 3 inches of the sloping part of the kerb. Reading from other forums it has been mentioned that I could appeal based on the principal of De minimis = i.e. if you were only overhanging the dropped kerb by a fraction, and the law should not concern itself with mere trifles. Often used in PCN appeals. However I don't think this is a strong point to dispute the PCN on and I am wondering if anyone can provide a stronger angle for an appeal.
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post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:42
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cp8759
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:53
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Parking adjacent to the sloping kerb isn't a contravention at all. As usual for the best advice please upload the PCN and the council photos (usually available from the council website), we really need to see the car from its side.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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Incandescent
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 18:31
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Looking at the photo you have posted, I reckon you are not intruding into the dropped section, only the sloping section, so there has been no contravention. However the council photos are the key here as if you take it to TPT (the adjudicators), they will have to present these in their evidence pack and I doubt they will prove the contravention. Far, far, too many counculs issue PCNs when vehicles are only adjacent to the sloping section. They get away with it, as most people just cough-up, thinking councils are perfect and knowledgeable !!!! Other reason is they don't want to gamble the discount at adjudication. This is considered to be a double-or-quits gamble, and I have to say I agree with that interpretation.
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cp8759
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 20:19
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 19:31) *
Looking at the photo you have posted, I reckon you are not intruding into the dropped section, only the sloping section, so there has been no contravention. However the council photos are the key here as if you take it to TPT (the adjudicators), they will have to present these in their evidence pack and I doubt they will prove the contravention. Far, far, too many counculs issue PCNs when vehicles are only adjacent to the sloping section. They get away with it, as most people just cough-up, thinking councils are perfect and knowledgeable !!!! Other reason is they don't want to gamble the discount at adjudication. This is considered to be a double-or-quits gamble, and I have to say I agree with that interpretation.

I'm not sure it is a double or quits gamble, it depends entirely on the photos. I don't think we've had an adjudicator ever rule that parking next to the sloping part of the kerb is a contravention so if that's the situation here, it's an almost guaranteed win.


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Incandescent
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:17
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The "almost" is the problem when combined with the loss of the discount option !
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cp8759
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:26
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 22:17) *
The "almost" is the problem when combined with the loss of the discount option !

There's a big difference between a 50/50 case, and a case where we can say if you don't win you could ask for a review on a point of law.


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KipDFaith
post Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 00:25
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Well I have lost the discount since the ticket was issued in April, the week just before I left the country until June when I found the reminder.
I am not sure how to get the photographic evidence from the council's website, but I have emailed the council requesting for it and hope to hear from them soon. Once I get it I shall post them on here.
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Neil B
post Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 00:52
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QUOTE (KipDFaith @ Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 01:25) *
Well I have lost the discount since the ticket was issued in April, the week just before I left the country until June when I found the reminder.
I am not sure how to get the photographic evidence from the council's website, but I have emailed the council requesting for it and hope to hear from them soon. Once I get it I shall post them on here.

Are there any dates involved in this?

By "reminder", presumably mean the Notice to Owner?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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DancingDad
post Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 04:57
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I think we need to see the reminder.... or at least get the proper name for it.... Notice to Owner or Charge Certificate ??
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hcandersen
post Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 07:57
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OP, unless you give us dates and proper names for notices your questions could be totally redundant because you could be timed out of the appeals process.

The immediate info we need is, as per DD’s post, the name of the ‘reminder’ and its date of issue. Preferably post the notice, but certainly give us its name and date.

Forget photos for the moment.
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