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Car parking in residential areas - advise please
LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:56
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Registered keeper has received a letter before claim.
Upon reading the lease there is no mention of car parking enforcement companies however there is a section as attached.
Any advice ?

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post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:56
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:20
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Thank you I have read this.
No information sheet or reply form was sent by post as is detailed in the info.so surely I have now lost 7 days having to request this.
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:33
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No, they meet the 'spirit' of the rules by providing a download link. It isn't fatal to their case but could impact the costs they can claim but would likely be considered 'sufficient'.

If 1st class was used them 2 working days would be presumed. But either way this is something you need to do before Xmas.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:34


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:39
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QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:02) *
I guess now my issue is how I would defend this in courts against the PPC....!


Same as all the hundreds of other residential cases on this forum and on MSE. There is an example defence given on MSE forum (NEWBIES FAQS thread) for residential cases, written by a solicitor (Johnersh) on which you can base yours.

Also, on both forums (here and on MSE) there are several examples of a response to a Letter before Claim, based on a letter written by another MSE-posting solicitor, LoadsofChildren123. Easy to find by searching for the word 'immune'.

I would hope you've discovered this already and read several similar threads and already found it, seeing as that basis for response is used every day on both forums...so much more is learnt by newbies reading other threads regularly, than staying in splendid isolation on their own, awaiting replies.
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LLL
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:43
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Ok so I reply ticking the box requesting the information sheet and reply form
In my covering letter I request evidence of the debt etc.
Once this is received I send my reply with my dispute. Correct?

QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:39) *
QUOTE (LLL @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:02) *
I guess now my issue is how I would defend this in courts against the PPC....!


Same as all the hundreds of other residential cases on this forum and on MSE. There is an example defence given on MSE forum (NEWBIES FAQS thread) for residential cases, written by a solicitor (Johnersh) on which you can base yours.

Also, on both forums (here and on MSE) there are several examples of a response to a Letter before Claim, based on a letter written by another MSE-posting solicitor, LoadsofChildren123. Easy to find by searching for the word 'immune'.

I would hope you've discovered this already and read several similar threads and already found it, seeing as that basis for response is used every day on both forums...so much more is learnt by newbies reading other threads regularly, than staying in splendid isolation on their own, awaiting replies.


Thank you for this. I had previously been using another forum
Not here or mse..... will do my research tomorrow and get something sent off!
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LLL
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 09:10
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Ok so after a long night of researching I am intending to send this


Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of xxxxx 2017.

Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.
I also note the failure to supply the Information Sheet and Reply form. I request these copies on paper.

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6©) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2.

Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. Details of the signs displayed time and date stamped (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form
12. Provide a copy of all previous correspondence your client has alleged to issued to me.
13. Provide me with evidence of which the claimant wishes to use to disprove the fact the car was parked legally, including photos showing the front, rear and side of the car in line with code of conduct.

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Would anything be changed or is this okay? Should I include a time scale?
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 17:18
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That will do, no need for a timescale as the protocol already provides for deadlines and rules that G's will ignore anyway.

QUOTE
Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims and must be complied with.


I think I would just suggest changing 'on' to 'from' (because it's already past 1/10) and 'is applicable to' = 'entered into force for all'
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Eljayjay
post Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 15:15
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Read everything and anything sent to you with a degree of scepticism. For example, if the parking agreement purports to be signed by Fred Bloggs, Director of XYZ Limited, ask yourself the questions: does XYZ Limited have the right to sign the agreement?; is Fred Bloggs a director of XYZ Limited? (very easily checked by visiting the Companies House website but make sure that you use the gov.uk version); and has the document been signed properly in accordance with Section 44 of the Companies Act 2006?

I recently won a residential case because the Judge found against the Claimant (who was represented by Counsel) on all of these points.
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LLL
post Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 21:12
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Good advice thank you!
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LLL
post Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 10:46
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The letter was sent last week, with proof, no reply as yet.... how long should I wait?

This post has been edited by LLL: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 14:48
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hcandersen
post Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 11:38
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Registered keeper has received a letter before claim.
Upon reading the lease there is no mention of car parking enforcement companies however there is a section as attached.
Any advice ?


These don't appear out of the blue. There's a background about which we know nothing. Let's not worry about the facts, let's just dive straight in to convoluted boxing and coxing around procedure.

We have not yet discovered whether, in the circumstances of the case - which we don't know, any action by the respondent has or could have given rise to a legitimate claim against them.

But what the hell?

PS. although you were guarded in your first post, as you now say that you've sent a letter, then presumably you are the registered keeper?

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 11:39
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LLL
post Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 13:35
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When should a reply be expected?

This post has been edited by LLL: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 14:49
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 21:44
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QUOTE (LLL @ Sat, 16 Dec 2017 - 14:35) *
When should a reply be expected?


Look up the PAP for yourself...your letter tells them to follow it! You need to know what it is you said in your letter to them.


QUOTE
We have not yet discovered whether, in the circumstances of the case - which we don't know, any action by the respondent has or could have given rise to a legitimate claim against them.

But what the hell?


Doesn't matter at this stage HCA, and not sure where you think you've seen PPCs issuing 'legit claims' (once in a blue moon?).

PPCs are all scammers IMHO (especially their abhorrent harassment of people either at Hospitals or when in a residential car park where they live). So, if someone gets a LBCCC - especially from a robo-claim solicitor who will have made NO checks of facts, evidence or detail - they reply thusly, and if they get a claim, they defend. Regardless!

Because the worst that can happen is they are one of the few who lose, then they'd pay no more than is being screamed for now. Never mind yet, the detail of the lease.
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LLL
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:17
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Hello,
So I finally received my information sheet on the 9th and no reply to my letter atall.
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 02:27
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Then refer to their info sheet of x date, noting it failed to give the response required in your letter of y date which you enclose for their convenience. State they are to provide the information within 14 days or you consider the matter closed.
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