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[NIP Wizard] Two tickets a minute apart
Spage
post Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 16:08
Post #1


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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2020
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Woburn Road, Btwn Abbot Crescent and Wolseley Road (Southbound), Kempston, Bedfordshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was travelling to pick up waste food from a supermarket for a charity. I was supposed to arrive before the close of business but took a wrong turn and was travelling at 38mph in what I now know to be a 30mph area. I passed along the road at 19.36, turned round a roundabout and then got a ticket for the northbound section of the same stretch of road timed one minute later (19.37). The speed for the second ticket is 37mph.

Do I need to accept both tickets?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:08:43 +0000
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post Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 16:08
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TMC Towcester
post Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 16:25
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you don't have the choice of acceptance or not!

Presumably you've got the instruction to name the driver? You must complete and return both (otherwise the penalties are severe)

Two different directions are more difficult to suggest one continuous event but there's no harm in asking - once you received the FPNs (or SAC)
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 17:12
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Member No.: 49,223



Seems like a compliant system of streetlighting - making it a restricted road of 30mph without signage to the contrary. Even some sporting, but unnecessary, camera signs reminding it is 30mph - here.

A crafty SPECS average speed system there (right near the Police Headquarters!)

Usual advice is to return both driver nominations together with a covering letter to ask them to consider it a single continuous offence. However, given they are different directions I think they'll politely decline. (That would likely be considered correct as the driver exceeded the limit then reduced to around the roundabout and then exceeded it again)

Likely outcome is 1 course and 1 CoFP (3 points £100).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 17:16


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Spage
post Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 23:07
Post #4


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Joined: 11 Jan 2021
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 16:25) *
you don't have the choice of acceptance or not!

Presumably you've got the instruction to name the driver? You must complete and return both (otherwise the penalties are severe)

Two different directions are more difficult to suggest one continuous event but there's no harm in asking - once you received the FPNs (or SAC)


Thanks. It's the first time I've had a ticket so no idea how it works. Is it obvious who to appeal to/asked once the FPN has been issued?

QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 17:12) *
Seems like a compliant system of streetlighting - making it a restricted road of 30mph without signage to the contrary. Even some sporting, but unnecessary, camera signs reminding it is 30mph - here.

A crafty SPECS average speed system there (right near the Police Headquarters!)

Usual advice is to return both driver nominations together with a covering letter to ask them to consider it a single continuous offence. However, given they are different directions I think they'll politely decline. (That would likely be considered correct as the driver exceeded the limit then reduced to around the roundabout and then exceeded it again)

Likely outcome is 1 course and 1 CoFP (3 points £100).


I guess I was just distracted by trying to correct a mistake quickly, missed the sign in the dark and drew hasty assumptions from the fact that it was not a built up area. Thanks for the advice and managing my expectations, I will write a covering letter. Much appreciated.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 13 Jan 2021 - 07:32
Post #5


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Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



There is no appeal to a FPN (or a Conditional offer of a Fixed penalty - CoFP - which is what you'll actually be offered).

The Fixed Penalty is an offer to you to dispose of the allegation for the known punishment, you either accept the offer or you do not, if you do not the matter then goes to court and a trial to determine your guilt or otherwise. A CoFP would be for 3 points and £100, in court the penalty would be income related and after a contested trial you face at least £620 in prosecution costs.

'Built up area' is irrelevant to speed limits and has been since the 1930's, what matters are the national speed limits, or a posted limit below that, noting that a system of street lighting makes it a 'restricted road' and a 30mph speed limit unless OTHERWISE signed - no repeater signs are required nor permitted. All in the Highway Code.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 - 07:33


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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