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imperial war museum ncp - anpr cameras seems faulty
sayitisso
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 00:13
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Hi guys,

The attached notice was rec'd thru the post

There's a couple of things I should point out.

First and most importantly, the driver genuinely didn't park there! The driver went into the car park to see if there were any disabled parking spots available and left after a minute or two when there wasn't any available.....
How would the driver go about proving the times given are wrong if that is honestly the case? ie can they ask for footage of the car being parked for a certain period

Secondly, the letter has arrived quite late, (date of incident 15th sep, notice sent 1st Nov), from what I understand there are limits on how long after an incident a notice can be sent, but this may be old info or only apply to council tickets....if it had been sooner the car has a dashcam and it could have helped with footage.


Thanks

This post has been edited by sayitisso: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 - 18:42
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post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 00:13
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Forgotten_userna...
post Tue, 7 Dec 2021 - 23:27
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Hey guys, got home and had the following letter in the post....

Attached Image


I'm still intrigued how their camera system could get it wrong as these things are automated and it's likely this was a systematic error which probably would've affected more than 1 person

but anyway, thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated 👍👍👍

This post has been edited by Forgotten_username: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 - 23:28
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DWMB2
post Tue, 7 Dec 2021 - 23:35
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Good result, well done icon_thumleft.gif


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Sheffield Dave
post Wed, 8 Dec 2021 - 00:44
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You might want to write to them pointing out that, as there was a systemic error with their ANPR timing, can they confirm that they have written to all other motorists at that site charged for an overstay of an hour or less, offering to refund any fees paid, plus compensation for the inconvenience.

(Ho ho...)
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Jlc
post Wed, 8 Dec 2021 - 09:07
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Conveniently they haven't admitted an 'error'. However, it does appear that they have accessed personal details without reasonable cause.... Now if only there was legislation about that...........


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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thevaliant
post Wed, 8 Dec 2021 - 09:55
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It's almost worth, for a PePiPoo member who lives in the area and is willing to get involved with a fight, for someone with their dashcam or other recording device on, to drive into IWM and drive around before driving out again.

And see what, if anything, comes in the post.

If I was a betting man, I do wonder if they'll ever fix the timings or if they simply view it as a nice source of income. There are always the types of people who will pay any demanded sum of money and NPC have little incentive to fix matters as if even 20% of unjustified charges are paid, this is a nice little earner for them.
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Forgotten_userna...
post Wed, 8 Dec 2021 - 11:57
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Yeah I am intending to write to them asking what has been done for others who may have been affected but as others have noted, they have not specified which of the points I made they accept as valid and I'm fully expecting either a non or evasive answer....

And I agree that there is no real incentive for them to fix any such problems as they are unlikely to ever make a loss from it. I've found the same with other companies (eg mobile,gas) where they may overcharge but they don't return the money unless you spot it and report it to them - they have no incentive to fix the problem.

In regards reasonable cause, I'll have to research further into this, is it something I should write to them stating this is the case and include it with the stuff above, or is it something Id have to persue separately?
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Jlc
post Wed, 8 Dec 2021 - 15:43
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Yes, include it together.

It's 'basic' data protection - i.e. to access your personal information they have to have a reasonable cause to do so. In this case an alleged breach of private parking terms - but it wasn't actually breached due to an apparent error in their systems. They have an obligation to ensure their systems are accurate.

Fortunately, they appear to have been reasonable and cancelled - but you may have a stronger case if they continued to process the information.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Iphigenie
post Tue, 11 Jan 2022 - 18:25
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We were stung by the same thing. For anyone else who has this issue, when you go on the online portal about the penalty, you get to see the pictures in full size.

And it makes it obvious that indeed only one of the cameras is on summer time, the other one is not. There's a +1:00 after one of the time stamps and not the other
Attached Image


It's possible that camera was wrong all summer and that would mean hundreds of people overcharged too?

NCP still rejected our appeal saying the camera shows the time we entered at.
Even though we were in ANOTHER NCP car park until 12:39 we were supposedly entering this car park at 12:00

Note that on that day the museum was closed hence why we turned around immediately. Note too it is a day before the OP issue. We received ours later in November too and had our appeal refused on the 15th of December.

Now with the arbitrator (hopefully they will look at the photos!) but I will not pay for this robbery - and thanks for the tip that due to their mistake our DVLA details were accessed unlawfully too!

This post has been edited by Iphigenie: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 - 18:36
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Jlc
post Tue, 11 Jan 2022 - 19:06
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QUOTE (Iphigenie @ Tue, 11 Jan 2022 - 18:25) *
NCP still rejected our appeal saying the camera shows the time we entered at.

Shocking but not surprised as PPC's are just programmed to reject appeals as they believe they are never wrong. (There's virtually no incentive to accept initial appeals)

QUOTE (Iphigenie @ Tue, 11 Jan 2022 - 18:25) *
Note that on that day the museum was closed hence why we turned around immediately. Note too it is a day before the OP issue. We received ours later in November too and had our appeal refused on the 15th of December.

Now with the arbitrator (hopefully they will look at the photos!) but I will not pay for this robbery - and thanks for the tip that due to their mistake our DVLA details were accessed unlawfully too!

Have NCP submitted their evidence to POPLA? I would expect them to not contest...

Personally, I would write them a strong letter as it seems all but certain that they obtained your personal without reasonable cause in the first place and have then continued to process it even when the error has been pointed out.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 - 19:07


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Jlc
post Mon, 17 Jan 2022 - 17:41
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Member No.: 49,223



A complaint is now in progress - drop an update here should you want to add evidence/join.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 - 17:41


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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