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County Court Claim Form Link Parking/Gladstone, Threads merged
Fudge05
post Mon, 28 May 2018 - 14:59
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Hello hope you are all enjoying your bank holiday. I was wondering if you could help. I have received county court claim form from link parking and Gladstone solicitors. I have submitted the acknowledgment of service. Now I need to draft a defence. The driver was parked at a friends place where they have a number of visitor spaces but a visitor permit was not displayed. Being as it was Boxing Day it shouldn’t matter but how wrong!

Please could you point me in the right direction on any useful defence statements. I have tried looking on google maps for the signs but I can’t find it on there. I may have to go back on site and take a picture myself.

I have a week to draft my statement as the claim form dated 1st may. sad.gif

This post has been edited by Fudge05: Mon, 28 May 2018 - 15:07
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:03
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You send it to the court your case was allocated to.
Once allocated the CCBC has no further part to play in a claim.

2) You shoudl priobably state the identity of this other company! WHat do you mean by "the sign"? The sign in their pack? The sign on site? WHICH "the sign" on site?
3) The signage appended to the particulars of claim by the Claimant (They are the Claimant, at all points) does not appear on the site, and appears to be a stock photograph taken from their own archives. The court is invited to strike out the claimants particulars of claim, as their cause of action is founded on a sign that does not exist on the site. In the alternative the Court is invited to strike out the claim, as the claimant have still not provided a copy of the alleged contract as Orderd on XYZ date (ONLY INCLUDE THIS IF THE ORDER FOR POC SAYS THIS).

Your defence does NOT append ANY evidence. None. Its frustrating but thats the rules.

7 (i) - huh? UTCCR 1999 was replaced by Consumer Rights Act 2015
vi - i woudlnt bother. You havent made an allegation of ex turpi so this is irrelevant.

I would also revise 7 entirely. Given suppsoedly the signs are for another entitiy, then you need to make this clear. At the moment its just a blind copy and paste, and when read in conjunction with the statrt it doesnt make sense.

To be clear - at NO POINT do you use "I" in this. You are "the Defendant". Defences are third person, witness statements are first person. Dont mix the two up.

8) If the claimant is using POFA to claim from you, the defendant, then the amount claimed cannot exceed the amount on the Notice to Keeper. POFA2012 para 4(5) "The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)© or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified)."

9ii - the could only have followed one CoP...

9 and 11 - why have you mentuioned BEavis twice, with a random gap in between for a different topic? Your summary at 9 isnt even as good as the 11 para.

Id delete 12
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Fudge05
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 21:20
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Hello i submitted my revised defence statement on Monday.
Just looking at the court letter it states that
By 22 Oct I need to submit copied of all documents that I will be relying on in a bundle.
By 29 October submit witness statement

Can someone please advise what documents need to be included in the bundle apart from the defence

Feeling a bit down today as all weekend I was working on the defence and didn’t have much time to prepare for my interview on Monday. Found out I didn’t get the job today so I am really annoyed with myself that I let these people ruin my chances! angry.gif
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 22:19
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QUOTE
Can someone please advise what documents need to be included in the bundle apart from the defence

The defence isn't even one of them. The court already has your defence.

It means your evidence.

Have you not yet been directed to the NEWBIES thread second post on MSE forum, where bargepole summarises what happens when in court claims, and where there are examples of WS and a list of typical evidence a Defendant can use in a typical case. Obviously the friend's lease and pics of signs will be part of it.

Do go and look at the NEWBIES thread on MSE forum, the second post of it is all about court stage and there you will find the examples you need.

QUOTE
Found out I didn’t get the job today so I am really annoyed with myself that I let these people ruin my chances!
Awww...sorry to hear that! Better luck with this then, make the time worthwhile; getting this stage right can save you a 3 figure sum!
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 12:12
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Damn, not good!
Did you make the changes I suggested?

The evidence will be for examples photos. Even better if you can show the sign THEY sent in doesnt appear, by showing a pic of every sign, and marking them on a map of the site - use google maps to do this.
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Fudge05
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 20:35
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:12) *
Damn, not good!
Did you make the changes I suggested?

The evidence will be for examples photos. Even better if you can show the sign THEY sent in doesnt appear, by showing a pic of every sign, and marking them on a map of the site - use google maps to do this.


Hi unfortunately I didn’t as by the time you responded I had already submitted the documents. Is there anyway I can changed this?
Yes, I will be making sure I do. Just feel really down with ervything so wanted to know if I can just agree and pay up before it even going to court?
I received Gladstone witness statement in the post today - 20 page bundle so a bit worried now sad.gif sad.gif
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Fudge05
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 20:54
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Please help. My defence states that the link parking is a stranger to the alleged contract however in their witness statement, they have included a copy of the contract with the landowner.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:01
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QUOTE (Fudge05 @ Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:54) *
Please help. My defence states that the link parking is a stranger to the alleged contract however in their witness statement, they have included a copy of the contract with the landowner.


Wow you are in a muddle and seem stressed - so calm down. This is no big deal and you do not suddenly have no case against this useless predatory PPC.

That's not even talking about the same contract you meant! In your case there are THREE meanings of 'contract':

- the contract allegedly formed by the conduct of the driver, by allegedly breaching the contractual terms on some useless hidden sign

- the contract/agreement the resident has in their lease or tenancy, that grants them/authorised visitors rights of way, parking spaces, etc. (Link IS A STRANGER to that).

- the contract between LInk and the landowner, of course they are a party to that, they would have to be! Nothing has changed, get a grip and stop thinking about paying!

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:02
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Fudge05
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:17
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 22:01) *
QUOTE (Fudge05 @ Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:54) *
Please help. My defence states that the link parking is a stranger to the alleged contract however in their witness statement, they have included a copy of the contract with the landowner.


Wow you are in a muddle and seem stressed - so calm down. This is no big deal and you do not suddenly have no case against this useless predatory PPC.

That's not even talking about the same contract you meant! In your case there are THREE meanings of 'contract':

- the contract allegedly formed by the conduct of the driver, by allegedly breaching the contractual terms on some useless hidden sign

- the contract/agreement the resident has in their lease or tenancy, that grants them/authorised visitors rights of way, parking spaces, etc. (Link IS A STRANGER to that).

- the contract between LInk and the landowner, of course they are a party to that, they would have to be! Nothing has changed, get a grip and stop thinking about paying!


Ok thanks, appreciate your time. I feel like giving up. It really hasn’t been a good year for me and just want all this to end. I would,appreciate if you can review my witnes statement which hopefully I will have done by this weekend.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:35
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Don't give up!!

QUOTE
I received Gladstone witness statement in the post today - 20 page bundle
But everyone gets that, and it's a template (you could Google a phrase/name of the person who signed it and you will see YOUR '20 page bundle' is a template...cut & paste. AND WE WIN THESE CASES.

Show us your draft WS and note in it, what evidence you are adducing with the WS. As per the examples showing in the MSE NEWBIES thread second post. Go and look.

This stage is easy. It's your story, in your words, and your evidence you want to show the Judge that the other side's case is full of holes, and it's your chance to tear into the flaws in their copy & paste robo-claim of nothingness.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:36
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 08:55
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Inded, GS just copy and paste a TERRIBLE witness statement - that usally BREACHES COURT RULES by introducing arguments not advanced intheir claim - which you can absolutely tear holes into
For example - it will make assumptions and hang argumetns off those assumptions, and never actually provide any evidence.

Its a shame you rushed so much - theres no point putting things up for us to have a look at, if you submit anyway. I replied at 11am, and the court day doesnt finish until 4pm, so you had 4+ hours left to submit it.
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Fudge05
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 10:36
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 09:55) *
Inded, GS just copy and paste a TERRIBLE witness statement - that usally BREACHES COURT RULES by introducing arguments not advanced intheir claim - which you can absolutely tear holes into
For example - it will make assumptions and hang argumetns off those assumptions, and never actually provide any evidence.

Its a shame you rushed so much - theres no point putting things up for us to have a look at, if you submit anyway. I replied at 11am, and the court day doesnt finish until 4pm, so you had 4+ hours left to submit it.


i understand but i had an interview on Monday and i was travelling out of town and would not have had access to a PC to submit any changes which is why i needed to submit in the morning.
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Fudge05
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 18:22
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i have just been out to the site and have found the signs that they refer to so basically there were two different signage placed on the site.
one which was the entrance sign (as previously attached) but blocked by a parking bay
and second - which was the sign that does have Link Parking name on the signage.
however these signs were not entirely visible as these are placed at the back of the car park and partially hidden by bushes



am i screwed as my defence is partially based on that
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 20:41
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QUOTE
am i screwed as my defence is partially based on that

No. Looks like a sign hidden in a bush. Typical PPC scam.

Like I said - and we all said to your already - you are likely to win, and risk nothing bad if you lost!

Show us your draft WS and note in it, what evidence you are adducing with the WS. As per the examples showing in the MSE NEWBIES thread second post. Go and look.

This stage is easy. It's your story, in your words, and your evidence you want to show the Judge that the other side's case is full of holes, and it's your chance to tear into the flaws in their copy & paste robo-claim of nothingness.

Promise us you will stop wobbling, be confident and just show us a simple WS copied from others?

Such a simple stage you are at, and you can expand about the woeful signage.

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Fudge05
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 23:58
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Thanks so much for your help and support SchoolRunMun biggrin.gif

I have drafted the witness statement below, please do let me know what you think.

I, **** of ****** am the defendant in this matter and deny liability for the entirety of the claim.

1. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge there are true to the best of my information and belief

2. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

3. On the 26th December 2017 I received a parking charge notice asking for payment of £100 for not clearly displaying a valid permit.

4. It is admitted that I was the authorised registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged incident but I was not the driver of the vehicle so have no knowledge of the events, or signage terms on the date in question and the Claimant did not identify the driver

5. The Claimant considers that I should have liability, as I am the Keeper of the vehicle and the Claimant is relying upon the strict provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold me responsible for the driver’s alleged breach. The Claimant also relies on the criminal case of Elliott v Loake 1983 to support this presumption stating that the Registered Keeper may be presumed to be the driver unless they significantly rebut this presumption. The Defendant argues that this case does not support the Claimant’s presumption because in the case there were compelling evidence that justified the magistrates to conclude that this man was driving his blue sports car on the night when it collided with the stationary car.

6. The Particulars of Claim do not give any reasons why the Claimant requires a payment other than it results from ‘breaching the terms of parking on the land’. Signage displayed on the sites that are forbidding signs cannot create a contract. In the cases of B4GF26K6 PCM (UK) v Mr B, B4GF27K3 PCM (UK) v Mr W and B4GF26K2 PCM (UK) v Ms L it was demonstrated that forbidding signage at residential parking spaces did not create a contract.

7. The Claimant states, in their Particulars of Claim, that the signage is ‘clearly displayed’ but this is not agreed. Thus, the necessary elements of offer and acceptance to form a contract were not present. The elements of offer, acceptance and consideration both ways have therefore not been satisfied and so no contract can exist.

8. As I was completely unaware that any terms and conditions existed in the car park, I returned to investigate what signage would have been available to the driver that day.

9. The terms and conditions in the car park were ambiguous due to their being more than two different signs being present on the site. Furthermore, complimentary parking is available for those who live in the area or those using the services of businesses residing in that area i.e. GP Surgery, Café, Solicitor office etc. Yet for others, it is pay and display on certain days, and in some circumstances it seems a permit is required. It is unclear which terms apply to which bays, and what the situation was on the alleged date. Attached to this witness statement at Appendix 1 is a copy of the signage when entering the site and Appendix 2 shows the other signs which was hidden by foliage.

10. The signage was inadequate to form a contract with the motorist because it is barely legible, making it difficult to read as this is blocked by a car parked in a parking bay. Please refer to Appendix 3 which evidences how the entrance sign is blocked by a parked car thus making it impossible to read the sign when approaching the car park.

11. Other signs (different to the entrance signs) which I was completely unaware of until I returned to the site for a second time were placed high on lampposts hidden by foliage and not facing the parked vehicles essentially hidden from view.

12. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract. The signage was inadequate to form a contract with the motorist and is barely legible making it difficult to read.

13. The photograph the Claimant has submitted of a sign mounted on a pole is not from the area where the vehicle was parked and is completely irrelevant.

14. The claim is for breach of contract. However, it is denied any contract existed as the signage displayed is forbidding does not offer a contract with the motorist who are not displaying a permit. Therefore no contract can have been established with any driver of this vehicle that was not displaying a permit. In Case number B6QZ4H3R of UKPC v Mr M, Judge Ellington found that the signage displayed only made an offer of parking to permit holders, and therefore only permit holders could be bound by the contractual terms conveyed.


15. The Claimant did not display clear signs within the site that were capable of being read and/or form a contract. There is no prominent signage at the entrance of the parking area as the sign is placed on the side of the entrance not facing cars approaching the car park and is also obscured by parked cars. Other signs are raised high up with small text which is difficult to read and on poles with so much foliage behind it that anyone parking there can't see or even guess about the existence of these signs at all, especially where they are positioned and not facing the vehicles as they are hidden in bushes behind the carpark.

16. Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case as signs are illegible and non-compliant with font and positioning, the charge not prominent or large lettering.

17. This distinguishes this case from the Beavis case, as they do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park, but as an agent. The claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim, which should be in the name of Landowner. The Beavis case confirmed that it is a matter of a Trespass (not breach of contract). A parking firm charge has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue nominal damages.

18. In Vine v London borough of Waltham Forest the court of appeal ruled that a person cannot be presumed bound by terms and conditions that they haven't seen. In this case, which was found in favour of the motorist the signage was deemed insufficient because there was no sign directly adjacent to the appellants parking bay and the only signage that was displayed could not be seen from within the vehicle whilst parking. In this case there would have been no signage adjacent to my vehicle.


19. Link Parking were not a party to such a contract, and therefore cannot sue on it and the alleged debt has never been assigned to them. This is the wrong Claimant and the wrong Defendant.


I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 21 Oct 2018 - 00:07
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You also need to mention (by number) the evidence you are including (give your local court a ring binder of WS, all numbered evidence and a contents page). e.g. your photos might be your initials followed by 1, 2, 3, etc.

You have stated this:

QUOTE
The Claimant considers that I should have liability, as I am the Keeper of the vehicle and the Claimant is relying upon the strict provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold me responsible for the driver’s alleged breach.


...but you haven't said why you are not liable as keeper, e.g. I would be stating that:

- a prerequisite of Schedule 4 'keeper liability' is 'adequate notice' of the parking terms. This is not the case, as you found signage buried in a bush, set away from the parking spaces (see xx1 photo).

Also surely an important enclosure would be a signed & dated Witness Statement from the resident friend stating that on Boxing Day the driver (who will remain nameless and was not the Defendant) parked the car VRN xxx xxxx in the car park at this witness's home (give address) with his/her full authority and was not an 'unauthorised vehicle'. Then the friend could expand on his/her understanding of why visitors may use the bays/how predatory the parking firm are/loads of complaints have been made by residents who are hounded by Link Parking, and attach a copy of anything useful from his/her lease/tenancy that grants parking rights.
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Fudge05
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 20:42
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Thank you so much for your help. I will let you know now I get on. biggrin.gif
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 20:47
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Evidence is key, really go to an effort to gather info from the friend about their right to park/visitors rights and include your pictures, and a contents page for the Judge.

A copy of it all also goes to Gladstones, but that can be emailed. Then print out the sent item email, to PROVE it was all sent to Gladstones in case their rep lies on the day.
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Fudge05
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 21:41
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Hi all, just getting a bit worried now. Court case is this Thursday. Just wanted to check on process.
I need to print out all my documents plus any supporting evidence x 3?
Do I need to prepare what I need to say? If so, any help would be appreciated
Is there anything else I need to do?
Getting really nervous now as I didn’t think it would come this far sad.gif
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 09:15
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Yes, print out
You can create a skeleton argument - a bullet list of your defence strong points plus ref to cases, to help you, and how their claim fails. Page of A4 as a guide
Create a cost schedule (search here) of your ORDINARY COSTS - half days loss of leave / pay, capped at £95, and bring evidence of that on the day, mileage both ways, parking. Then, IF the claimant has behaved unreasonably you have a seperate section for your excpetional costs due to this behaviour; you will need a short bullet list of HOW their behaviour is unreasonable, then a list of itme at £19 per hour, printing costs etc. CPR27.14(2)(g) is your reference as to why you need to ofd this - have a quick read, its dead easy to follow. Again, have a look around for reasons their behaviour is unreasonable - missed dates, sparse info, no cause of action etc .

You send BOTH documents tot he court AND claimant TODAY, as youve left this very late! Usually you do it a couple dyas before
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ostell
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 10:05
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You have submitted a witness statement + evidence to the court AND the claimant a couple of weeks ago haven't you?
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