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Speeding evidence provided, need advise
prorotom
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 09:19
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Hi,

Yesterday, I have received by post the court paperwork regarding speeding offence of 109mph on a dual carriage way (70 mph speed limit). This is my first offence, never been to court in my life and don't have any criminal records.

On that day I got caught, I knew I was speeding but I didn't know how quick I was going until I slowed down and looked at my speed. On the day I caught speeding, there was a car in front of me too.

So the evidence provided 3 pictures.

The 2 first pictures, the camera and laser (I assume the 4 line that makes a cross) was focused on the car bonnet in front. My car I can see it behind that front car. Between those two pictures there is one second difference. Both pictures showing speed of 109 and camera focused on the bonnet of the front car. My car plate number not even visible on the first two pictures. The front car had their plate number blurred. So they are aware my car is the car behind.

On picture number 3, is a picture of the rear of my car showing plate number and nothing else. No presence of any other car on picture no 3. So picture 3 only shows the rear of my car and plate number.

So not too sure what to do now. Do I plead guilty? Contact a solicitor?

When I got the NIP I didn't request for photograph evidence. I was aware I was speeding and I assumed I must be going that quick and trust the camera equipment.

Happy to post the pictures if that helps.

Thank you for reading this post.
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post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 09:19
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The Rookie
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 09:53
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The prosecution has to prove you are guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

They presumably have proof that you were driving (in the form of your reply to the NIP), they will have a continuous video which at some point will presumably clearly ID your car (or how did they write to you?). They can measure the speed of the car in front and then show (to the court's satisfaction) that you were doing the same speed (or you would be falling back) and that will almost certainly be enough to convict although there may be some scope for a 'Newton Plea' where you admit the offence (speeding - exceeding the speed limit) but contest the facts of the case (the alleged speed).

From what you've said, a not guilty plea will prove expensive (loss of 1/3 discount for guilty plea and an extra £535 in prosecution costs).

Perhaps complete the NIP wizard and have the output added to this thread (as requested in the 'read me first before posting' sticky) so we can look for any defects in process.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 10:19


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TMC Towcester
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 10:10
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Unless you have any form of defence a G plea is kinda inevitable. Generally, a solicitor will achieve little/nothing that cannot be achieved by the 'guilty party' and DIY saves a large amount of money for fines, taxis (if banned) and future insurance hikes.
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prorotom
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 10:19
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2021
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A38(A) Deep Lane - Marsh Mills, Devon
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Driving on the A38, I was trying to overtake, so changed to fast lane, another car ahead of me decided to do the same. So ended up behind that car. We were both going quick but I wasn't watching my speed so not too sure how fast I was going at that point of time. And noticed a mobile police camera van, slowed down and looked at my speed then.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:19:25 +0000
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prorotom
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 10:25
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2021
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A38(A) Deep Lane - Marsh Mills, Devon
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Driving on the A38, I was trying to overtake, so changed to fast lane, another car ahead of me decided to do the same. So ended up behind that car. We were both going quick but I wasn't watching my speed so not too sure how fast I was going at that point of time. And noticed a mobile police camera van, slowed down and looked at my speed then.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:19:27 +0000

Hi,

Thank you for looking, replying and your advise is very helpful. I am going to plead guilty and I will see what happens afterwards. As I have never done this before, hoping they will be a bit more lenient. I will update this post with results (how much ban, fine or points and if I was asked to come to court or not)

Many Thanks
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TryOut
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 10:35
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The camera doesn't measure your speed and the images are just there as a note of the speed, date, time, location and to identify the vehicle. The speed is added to the video after the speed has been measured by the laser speedmeter.
You can try a lawyer, most will simply attempt to frustrate the simple process and hope the police and CPS give up.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 10:50
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No defence seems to come from that. Just as well the other car slowed you down a bit!


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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TMC Towcester
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 11:12
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QUOTE (prorotom @ Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 11:25) *
Thank you for looking, replying and your advise is very helpful. I am going to plead guilty and I will see what happens afterwards. As I have never done this before, hoping they will be a bit more lenient. I will update this post with results (how much ban, fine or points and if I was asked to come to court or not)

Many Thanks


The sentencing is fairly prescriptive and (excepting current points on one's licence) history is largely irrelevant.

However you are above the threshhold for any course or fine/points (probably) Historically any three figure speed meant automatic ban: More recently that 100 'barrier' seems to have elongated towards 105-110. So, you'd best prepare for a short ban but might get lucky with a large dollop of points nd sizeable fine. Good luck
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Logician
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 13:18
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 12:12) *
Historically any three figure speed meant automatic ban


That was a long time ago, for many years my local court has not considered disqualification below 105 unless other factors were involved, 109 would only merit a short disqualification and many magistrates would consider that 6 points on your licence for 3 years more likely to cause you to re-think your driving, so you may keep your licence for now.


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prorotom
post Wed, 12 Jan 2022 - 22:37
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Hi,

I just wanted to update. So I have heard from the court, it did take a while to hear form the court as they are very busy and behind and I assume more serious offences are priority. Anyways, I was not invited to attend court, so got 6 points and a decent size fine. I would say I am very lucky with the outcome not to get ban but the fine was a big hit. So they can't be lenient both ways I would say. Situations are different, but since this my first offence and held my driving license over 10 years with no offences or any criminal records I believe it did contribute to the decision.

Thank you everyone for all your input and advise.



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The Rookie
post Thu, 13 Jan 2022 - 08:49
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The fine should be circa 150% of your weekly take home, less 1/3 for the guilty plea, so circa 100% (normal band is then +/- 17% of that weekly pay), plus the £85 costs and a surcharge of 10% of the fine. Is your 'big fine' in line with that?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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