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[NIP Wizard] NIP received but a bit OTT, Threads merged
garfie
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 11:38
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2018
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M4 Jnc 23a to Jnc24 W/B Gwent 50 3
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Alleged offence is exceed 50 variable speed limit - motorway ACD
58mph
at: 14:09 on 26/08/18

At Jnc 23a, the 50mph warning signs were lit (amber lights) at Jnc 24, the speed limit signs were lit. the first 50mph gantry speed limit sign is just before Jnc 24. I didn't brake, but let the car slow down to 50 at that point. As far as I'm aware there is no camera in the gantries at Jnc 24 or down to Jnc 26. There was no double flash (the the type of camera in the gantries does this). I therefore believe it may have been a car on a bridge over the motorway either at Jnc 23a where the speed limit is 70mph (amber 50mph warning lights lit) or at the section between 24 and 25. The traffic was relatively light as it was the Sunday of a bank holiday weekend and the queue for the Brynglas Tunnels didn't begin until Jnc 25 some 3 miles away. and was slower moving traffic for the 50mph limit rather than volume of traffic. The limits seem to be quite arbitrary on this stretch and can vary within the stretch of motorway from 40mph up to 70mph and in no particular order with some gantries remaining unlit. I just think that if it was a gantry camera, it would have had to be the first one as it's the only one before Jnc 24 and as I was already slowing down without using brakes for safety reasons, that it all seems a bit OTT and just a cash making exercise.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 11:38:53 +0000
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post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 11:38
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garfie
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 11:38
Post #2


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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2018
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M4 Jnc 23a to Jnc24 W/B Gwent 50 3
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Alleged offence is exceed 50 variable speed limit - motorway ACD
58mph
at: 14:09 on 26/08/18

At Jnc 23a, the 50mph warning signs were lit (amber lights) at Jnc 24, the speed limit signs were lit. the first 50mph gantry speed limit sign is just before Jnc 24. I didn't brake, but let the car slow down to 50 at that point. As far as I'm aware there is no camera in the gantries at Jnc 24 or down to Jnc 26. There was no double flash (the the type of camera in the gantries does this). I therefore believe it may have been a car on a bridge over the motorway either at Jnc 23a where the speed limit is 70mph (amber 50mph warning lights lit) or at the section between 24 and 25. The traffic was relatively light as it was the Sunday of a bank holiday weekend and the queue for the Brynglas Tunnels didn't begin until Jnc 25 some 3 miles away. and was slower moving traffic for the 50mph limit rather than volume of traffic. The limits seem to be quite arbitrary on this stretch and can vary within the stretch of motorway from 40mph up to 70mph and in no particular order with some gantries remaining unlit. I just think that if it was a gantry camera, it would have had to be the first one as it's the only one before Jnc 24 and as I was already slowing down without using brakes for safety reasons, that it all seems a bit OTT and just a cash making exercise.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales
- Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 11:38:56 +0000
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BaggieBoy
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 11:42
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Did you have a question?
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Logician
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 11:45
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Whatever your feelings about the appropriateness of the limit set, if you exceeded the speed limit set on any stretch you committed an offence. No defence is available on the basis that it was not reasonable to set a particular speed limit.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 11:53
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QUOTE (garfie @ Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 12:38) *
I was already slowing down without using brakes for safety reasons

No, you were being a bit 'casual' (let's be honest), so it looks like guilty really.

If you could show there was a genuine risk had you slowed down to 50 in time you may have the makings of an argument, but in reality I think we all know that wouldn't be true.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Ocelot
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 18:03
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That speed should qualify for a speed awareness course if you haven't done one in the last three years (no points).
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garfie
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 04:55
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To be honest, I thought that the speed was checked by a speedgun from a van on an overbridge. In which case, the only place it could have been would have placed me in a flashing amber 50mph section on the M4. I travel this stretch every day in the car and on a bike. The first gantry showing the speed limit never had a camera in it, but after checking today, it seems they have fitted one very recently, so it's a fair bet that it's that one that got me. I know it's no defence, but the speed limits seem to be set on timers and come on at the same time every day whether there's a traffic problem on that stretch or not. On that particular day, there was very light traffic along the "managed" stretch.

I'm guessing that I'll get the offer of the naughty drivers course, that'll be 4 hours of my life I won't get back. wink.gif
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kernow2015
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 05:34
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QUOTE (garfie @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 05:55) *
To be honest, I thought that the speed was checked by a speedgun from a van on an overbridge. In which case, the only place it could have been would have placed me in a flashing amber 50mph section on the M4. I travel this stretch every day in the car and on a bike. The first gantry showing the speed limit never had a camera in it, but after checking today, it seems they have fitted one very recently, so it's a fair bet that it's that one that got me. I know it's no defence, but the speed limits seem to be set on timers and come on at the same time every day whether there's a traffic problem on that stretch or not. On that particular day, there was very light traffic along the "managed" stretch.

I'm guessing that I'll get the offer of the naughty drivers course, that'll be 4 hours of my life I won't get back. wink.gif


If you do get the offer of the course, don't go there with that kind of attitude as they could still 'fail' you on the course and apply for the points to be given.
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Churchmouse
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 08:52
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QUOTE (kernow2015 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 06:34) *
QUOTE (garfie @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 05:55) *
To be honest, I thought that the speed was checked by a speedgun from a van on an overbridge. In which case, the only place it could have been would have placed me in a flashing amber 50mph section on the M4. I travel this stretch every day in the car and on a bike. The first gantry showing the speed limit never had a camera in it, but after checking today, it seems they have fitted one very recently, so it's a fair bet that it's that one that got me. I know it's no defence, but the speed limits seem to be set on timers and come on at the same time every day whether there's a traffic problem on that stretch or not. On that particular day, there was very light traffic along the "managed" stretch.

I'm guessing that I'll get the offer of the naughty drivers course, that'll be 4 hours of my life I won't get back. wink.gif


If you do get the offer of the course, don't go there with that kind of attitude as they could still 'fail' you on the course and apply for the points to be given.

I've never been on one, but I had no idea they included "attitude" testing! It's probably wise not to speak one's mind, however, in the presence of policey people...

--Churchmouse
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cp8759
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 20:29
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They're no policey people, they're a for-profit private contractor and they are not discharging a police function.


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Logician
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:08
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QUOTE (garfie @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 05:55) *
I know it's no defence, but the speed limits seem to be set on timers and come on at the same time every day whether there's a traffic problem on that stretch or not. On that particular day, there was very light traffic along the "managed" stretch. I'm guessing that I'll get the offer of the naughty drivers course, that'll be 4 hours of my life I won't get back. wink.gif


Having been in a managed motorway control room I can assure you that limits are not set on timers, just because the reason for a limit is not obvious to you does not mean it is not a valid reason. Most people find that they learn something from these courses.



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Churchmouse
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:23
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:29) *
They're no policey people, they're a for-profit private contractor and they are not discharging a police function.

They are indeed "policey people", which term I used specifically because they are not police. Coin your own words, pal...

--Churchmouse
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Logician
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:32
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They are more like driver instructory people.


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The Rookie
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 18:13
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From: Warwickshire
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QUOTE (garfie @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 05:55) *
I know it's no defence, but the speed limits seem to be set on timers and come on at the same time every day

Or the traffic gets to what is considered the critical level about the same time every (week) day......which sounds likely really.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 20:00
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:23) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:29) *
They're no policey people, they're a for-profit private contractor and they are not discharging a police function.

They are indeed "policey people", which term I used specifically because they are not police. Coin your own words, pal...

--Churchmouse

Fair enough, I've only ever heard the term being used to refer to police staff and CSOs.


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Churchmouse
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 23:12
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 21:00) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:23) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:29) *
They're no policey people, they're a for-profit private contractor and they are not discharging a police function.

They are indeed "policey people", which term I used specifically because they are not police. Coin your own words, pal...

--Churchmouse

Fair enough, I've only ever heard the term being used to refer to police staff and CSOs.

Fair enough, perhaps I'll give it more thought next time.

--Churchmouse
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