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Code 23 loading bay.
AHassan
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 17:45
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Hi all. Hope you are all having a good Saturday!

I popped out Earlier today and managed to get a parking fine I was parked in the loading bag with a disabled badge displayed. I had to unload something into the shops and all the bays where full. Again not an excuse. I had a look at the code and noticed it does not match where I was? It’s a code for me parking in a bay suitable for ambulances and motorcycles.

I have added the images to the link below can anyone let me know if I should appeal or just take it as a lesson and pay?

Thank you all!!!! smile.gif


https://ibb.co/F6hqkx5
https://ibb.co/VmxDhgG
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post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 17:45
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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 17:48
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Show us the council pics and give us a link to the location on google street view. A couple of ideas spring to mind but I'd like to establish the facts first.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:05
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:48) *
Show us the council pics and give us a link to the location on google street view. A couple of ideas spring to mind but I'd like to establish the facts first.


Hi thank you for your reply. I have attached the map links and images. Thanks.

https://goo.gl/maps/EU2zcoh8dsLjkohBA

https://ibb.co/vxBKSsT
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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:11
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The PCN is for parking a vehicle which is not a good vehicle (with some estates or SUVs you can get away with arguing that it's a goods vehicle, but with your car you'd really struggle). However from the PCN you wouldn't know that, for the reasons explained in Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2160271291, 26 July 2016) http://bit.ly/2E2TvXY


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:33
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In my defence I did actually drop something off I have a receipt for it and everything Shall I appeal under the ground of the pcn not being clear?
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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:40
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QUOTE (AHassan @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 19:33) *
In my defence I did actually drop something off I have a receipt for it and everything Shall I appeal under the ground of the pcn not being clear?

Have you read the case I linked?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:42
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Yes.
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AHassan
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 19:11
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Can I reference the case in my appeal?
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cp8759
post Sun, 13 Oct 2019 - 10:06
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Yes you can, put a draft on here before you send it off.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 22:27
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hi all, can you review the draft below please? I found a similar one on here which I had adapted;

Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking ticket number: **********
Vehicle registration number: **** ***

On 12/10/2019 my vehicle (**** ***) was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) for the reason of Contravention code 23 – Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle. I would like to submit an appeal on the basis that the council has committed a procedural impropriety by failing to consider my representations, and considering the wrong regulations. The alleged contravention did not occur, the ticket was wrongly issued and there are mitigating circumstances to explain why my vehicle was stationary when the PCN was issued. Please see my detailed reasoning below:

• The council have failed to consider the relevant regulations and it has therefore failed in its duty to consider the relevant legal framework.
o The council has asserted in its rejection letter that a goods vehicle is defined in regulation 4 of the TSRGD, but regulation 4 says: "Authorisations 4. Nothing in these Regulations limits a power of the Secretary of State, the Scottish Ministers or the Welsh Ministers to authorise a sign under section 28(4) or 64 of the 1984 Act."

• The Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) made an error
o The regulations require a PCN fully informs the reason a council believe a penalty is due. In this case, the PCN states "Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle". By failing to state the class or classes that may park, I cannot know from the PCN if a contravention occurred or not. The contravention code list published by London Councils, recognising this requires that a suffix is required to fully describe the contravention. In failing to apply a suffix the PCN fails to describe the reason for the penalty and also fails to comply with the requirements of London Council to issue a valid PCN. As per Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (case reference 2160271291) the PCN is invalid if it does not specify for which class of vehicles the parking place was designated.

• I was unable to determine what the relevant parking restrictions were
o There was no clear signage to explain what they were. Please see attached evidence of the signage in place. I personally understood the sign to mean the loading bay could be used as long as the vehicle was being used to load or unload goods. With reference to section 192 of the Road Traffic Act 1988: “goods vehicle” means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods. My vehicle can be considered to fall within the definition of “constructed” for the purposes of this exemption, whereby the seats can be folded to enable goods to be carried. Please find attached evidence from my vehicles handbook (pages 78-81) which details how my vehicle is constructed where the rear seat backrest is split and can be folded to expand the cargo area. The alleged contravention suggests my vehicle was parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle, however the signage is confusing and does not make it clear which class of vehicle should use the bay for example a commercial van or lorry.

• The alleged contravention did not occur and I believe the CEO got it wrong.
o There are mitigating circumstances to explain why my vehicle was stationary. I parked in *** in order to ****. I believed that this was classified as delivering and that my vehicle qualified as a goods vehicle. In any event, the PCN does not refer to loading but alleges that my vehicle was of a proscribed class without explaining what and why. Your response to my challenge argued that in fact the contravention related to my vehicle not being a ‘goods’ vehicle. You then set out the legal test which the authority applied to determine whether a vehicle is a ‘goods’ vehicle. Please see attached the necessary paperwork of the mail order returns receipt from the local business as proof goods were handed over to the store. As such, it is shown it was necessary for my vehicle to be in that place to unload.


I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled within 28 days.

Yours faithfully,

This post has been edited by AHassan: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 22:38
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cp8759
post Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 16:00
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QUOTE (AHassan @ Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 23:27) *
• The council have failed to consider the relevant regulations and it has therefore failed in its duty to consider the relevant legal framework.
o The council has asserted in its rejection letter...

What rejection letter are you talking about?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 17:18
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 17:00) *
QUOTE (AHassan @ Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 23:27) *
• The council have failed to consider the relevant regulations and it has therefore failed in its duty to consider the relevant legal framework.
o The council has asserted in its rejection letter...

What rejection letter are you talking about?


Sorry PCN not letter.
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cp8759
post Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 19:01
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QUOTE (AHassan @ Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 23:27) *
o The council has asserted in its rejection letter that a goods vehicle is defined in regulation 4 of the TSRGD,

Where does it say this on the PCN?

I fear your proposed draft is the result of copying something out of context, without really understanding what it means. If you bump the thread tomorrow I'll write a proper draft for you.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Fri, 25 Oct 2019 - 10:02
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 20:01) *
QUOTE (AHassan @ Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 23:27) *
o The council has asserted in its rejection letter that a goods vehicle is defined in regulation 4 of the TSRGD,

Where does it say this on the PCN?

I fear your proposed draft is the result of copying something out of context, without really understanding what it means. If you bump the thread tomorrow I'll write a proper draft for you.


Thank you I appreciate this.
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cp8759
post Fri, 25 Oct 2019 - 17:48
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Draft representation: http://bit.ly/2JnAYZ5

You'll need to download it, add in your details (name, address, PCN number and so on), print and send to the council by 1st class post.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 10:30
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 25 Oct 2019 - 17:48) *
Draft representation: http://bit.ly/2JnAYZ5

You'll need to download it, add in your details (name, address, PCN number and so on), print and send to the council by 1st class post.


Thanks CP this will be posted today. I appreciate your help. Have you had a chance to view the bus lane pcn please?
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cp8759
post Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 12:09
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QUOTE (AHassan @ Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 10:30) *
Thanks CP this will be posted today. I appreciate your help. Have you had a chance to view the bus lane pcn please?

Send from a post officer counter and get proof of postage. I've replied to your bus lane thread but you've not followed up, I suggest you reply on that thread.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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AHassan
post Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 21:16
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 12:09) *
QUOTE (AHassan @ Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 10:30) *
Thanks CP this will be posted today. I appreciate your help. Have you had a chance to view the bus lane pcn please?

Send from a post officer counter and get proof of postage. I've replied to your bus lane thread but you've not followed up, I suggest you reply on that thread.


Thanks CP all posted really appreciate your help once again, I did not create a thread for the bus lane PCN and just stuck it on this

This post has been edited by AHassan: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 22:52
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