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HELP Witness Statement - Impending Court Date, Help with making witness statement more robust please
Deedee27
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 10:56
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Hello
I am hoping it is not too late for this forum to help me as I am in a bit of a mess with my case. I am aware that this is a long post but I want to give as much information as possible in order to get all the help I can.

Background
My car broke down and was towed to a road near my mechanics (30th Jan 2017). Whilst it was there I eventually decided to have it scrapped as not worth fixing. Some weeks late I received at formal demand letter from UKCPM dated 6th April 2017 that I had received a ticket 4th March 2017. Unfortunately for me I had trusteed my mechanic to get the car scrapped. I called him and he directed me to the scrapping company who had no record of the car being scrapped. Eventually I called DVLA who said I was still the registered keeper. Subsequently I wrote to DVAL that I was no longer the registered keeper and do not have access to the car. They took my name off the car and needless to say I no longer use that mechanic.

I was then introduced to a company by a friend who help to fight parking tickets. They have been helping with communicating with UKCPM, have written my defence and I now at the stage of putting in my witness statement. It was at the point of the defence being written that I stumbled across MSE and Pepipoo. Had I known beforehand that they existed I would have used the advice here rather than the company. But all that is now water under the bridge. I am hoping this community can help me with my witness (already written by the company but I believe could use a second eye to make it more robust).

My court date is 11 Jan 2018 at 10am. I have to get my witness statement in by Thursday 27th December latest.

My defence was as follows:
I denied that
• a contract was formed,
• there was an agreement to pay a parking charge,
• there were terms and conditions prominently displayed around the site,
• there was an agreement to pay additional unspecified sums,
• the claimant adhered to schedule 4 of the protections of freedoms act 2012,
• the claimant complied with IPC and BPA code of practice, the I owe any debt

I have received back the witness statement sent by Gladstone Solicitors which is quite long and daunting, with pictures of my car (no signs nearby in their own picture), a lone picture of a parking sign surrounded by leaves and bushes (which is not and has never been on this road. The only signs they have up is on the opposite side of the road that I parked on and is a mostly faded no parking sign, also not present in the picture they took of my car and are presenting as evidence). They also have a map of the area and dots of alleged places where parking signs were (again not factual, I have even recently returned to the site and these so called signs are not there. Also if the signs were where they alleged them to be it would be visible in the picture they took of my car)

I want to include as evidence in my witness statement pictures of the area that I have taken showing the signs that are faded and on the opposite side of the road which I parked. Even google maps doesn’t have this so called sign that they are putting in as evidence. The company I am using is advising against it stating that it is the claimants’ job to prove those signs were there not mine. But I am trying to prove their lies. What is the advice here? Include my own pictures (which are taken a year late unfortunately, there is dated) or leave my pictures out and just try to combat it at the court as the sign is nowhere near my car in their own picture?

I will post my witness statement in a second post as I am very aware this post is getting long

I will be eternally grateful for any help or advice that can be offered

Thank you in advance
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post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 10:56
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 23:30
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You could point out their ws isn't one at all
Turn their non compliant to your advantage.

If they have included it then you refer to THEIR reference.

R3laise something here:you are taking the judge through a story, showing your side is correct. You most effectively show this through documents. Doesn't matter if it is yours or theirs, but you don't leave an assertion hanging - support it. Reference the exhibit that doe sit.
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Deedee27
post Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 18:29
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 23:30) *
You could point out their ws isn't one at all
Turn their non compliant to your advantage.

If they have included it then you refer to THEIR reference.

R3laise something here:you are taking the judge through a story, showing your side is correct. You most effectively show this through documents. Doesn't matter if it is yours or theirs, but you don't leave an assertion hanging - support it. Reference the exhibit that doe sit.


Thanks for your comment. I have not been near a computer. Hadn't realised this went to a second page, so sorry for my late response to this message.

Do I point out their non compliance in my WS or skeleton argument?



Thank you I will make sure each point is supported with evidence. I should be able to break this down well with my skeleton argument. I will post that here once the WS is sorted and sent off
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southpaw82
post Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 18:52
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QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 18:29) *
Do I point out their non compliance in my WS or skeleton argument?

Well, it’s not evidence so...


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Deedee27
post Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 19:26
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 18:29) *
Do I point out their non compliance in my WS or skeleton argument?

Well, it’s not evidence so...


OK so I can now send off the WS as is and begin working on my skeleton statement am I correct?

Or are you saying add the point to my statement. I'm probably being a little confused here so please help clarify.

Thanks
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Deedee27
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 17:13
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Hello Guys,

Happy New Year

I'm really grateful for the help i received last year and I am back for more support please.

So I have sent off my Witness Statement and have finished drafting the skeleton statement.

I would be grateful if there's anyone that can help me look through the skeleton statement and tell me if it is OK and if I'm supposed to send to the claimant or just the courts?

My case is next Friday 11th

Thank you in advance.

See attachedAttached File  Skeleton_Statement_1.pdf ( 105.82K ) Number of downloads: 15
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southpaw82
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 17:18
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Everything goes to the claimant as well as the court. You cannot have “private” correspondence with the judge.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Deedee27
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 18:02
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 17:18) *
Everything goes to the claimant as well as the court. You cannot have “private” correspondence with the judge.


ok will send these through on monday to both

are you able to help me look through the skeleton and make comments

thank you
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 21:24
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Have you also drawn up a 3 figure Costs Schedule to file & serve at the same time? All covered in other court threads and there's an example template on MSE forum, if not.
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Deedee27
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:02
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 21:24) *
Have you also drawn up a 3 figure Costs Schedule to file & serve at the same time? All covered in other court threads and there's an example template on MSE forum, if not.


no i haven't

I'll have a look at that now

Thank you
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Deedee27
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 21:27
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Hello

Thanks for all your help

I have put together the Skeleton Argument and Cost schedule and will be sending those through to the claimant and court tomorrow.


I'm hoping that someone can look through my list of things to take with me below and add anything else they feel necessary.

Thank you

  • Defendants: Defence, Witness Statement, Skeleton argument, evidence (including, pictures of site, case law [UKPC v Materson & PCM-UK v Bull, PoFA, IPC and BPA code of practise)
  • Lay Rep authorisation as my husband will be coming with me for support,
  • Relevant sections of the practise direction
  • cost schedule
  • law gazette blog for questioning right of representation (if they send someone)
  • Proof of ID
  • All correspondence with Claimant
  • Claimants: Bundle


I there is anything I am missing out please let me know

Many thanks
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 22:06
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Most importantly, your evidence of proof of the breakdown and towing of the car, to show you not only did not park it there, but also were not 'in control/charge of' the vehicle, as the keeper that day/week, either.

You cannot be held liable under any applicable law, as driver or as keeper but this is for you to convince the Judge.

Make sure you highlight the section of Schedule 4 where it says the 'keeper' as the liable party is 'assumed to be the registered keeper unless proved to the contrary' (or whatever the exact words are in the Act!) they are VITAL because the PPC will argue that the rk is liable, when in fact you are correct, in law the KEEPER is liable and UKCPM know that was not you. The Judge needs to be led to the truth as stated in the POFA, and he/she won't know it unless you/your lay rep OH talk them through it.


QUOTE
I was then introduced to a company by a friend who help to fight parking tickets. They have been helping with communicating with UKCPM, have written my defence and I now at the stage of putting in my witness statement. It was at the point of the defence being written that I stumbled across MSE and Pepipoo. Had I known beforehand that they existed I would have used the advice here rather than the company.


Ho, hum, did you look them up on TrustPilot, are are they one of those not on that website?

What did that *company* tell you to take to court with you, or aren't they answering emails? We sincerely hope your defence wasn't a template pile of rubbish, but you won't be able to show us the defence here, if a company wrote it. What a shame.

Do let us know the outcome. Get to court 30 minutes early and expect a legal rep to try to talk to you and get a settlement, outside, before the hearing (nope!).




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Deedee27
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 11:14
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 22:06) *
Most importantly, your evidence of proof of the breakdown and towing of the car, to show you not only did not park it there, but also were not 'in control/charge of' the vehicle, as the keeper that day/week, either.

You cannot be held liable under any applicable law, as driver or as keeper but this is for you to convince the Judge.

Make sure you highlight the section of Schedule 4 where it says the 'keeper' as the liable party is 'assumed to be the registered keeper unless proved to the contrary' (or whatever the exact words are in the Act!) they are VITAL because the PPC will argue that the rk is liable, when in fact you are correct, in law the KEEPER is liable and UKCPM know that was not you. The Judge needs to be led to the truth as stated in the POFA, and he/she won't know it unless you/your lay rep OH talk them through it.


QUOTE
I was then introduced to a company by a friend who help to fight parking tickets. They have been helping with communicating with UKCPM, have written my defence and I now at the stage of putting in my witness statement. It was at the point of the defence being written that I stumbled across MSE and Pepipoo. Had I known beforehand that they existed I would have used the advice here rather than the company.


Ho, hum, did you look them up on TrustPilot, are are they one of those not on that website?

What did that *company* tell you to take to court with you, or aren't they answering emails? We sincerely hope your defence wasn't a template pile of rubbish, but you won't be able to show us the defence here, if a company wrote it. What a shame.

Do let us know the outcome. Get to court 30 minutes early and expect a legal rep to try to talk to you and get a settlement, outside, before the hearing (nope!).


Thank you

I have the invoice from the towing company, unfortunately for me they have written my home address in the invoice but they had actually towed it to the road by the mechanics to make it easier for me to have it fixed. Rather than have to pay to tow it a second time from my home to the mechanics.

I am trying to get the mechanic to sign a statement saying the car was placed there but he's a giant nob so making it difficult.

It's just a convincing game with the judge I suppose.

Absolutely going to make use of the PoFA as best as I can. My husband will be with me for support as I'll need it to calm my nerves. I'm also going to make as many notes on what I have to say as possible using the skeleton as a guide. To avoid mincing my words on the day.

The company has just one review on trust pilot but reading their evidence and witness statement they sent me it seems in line with the advice on MSE and here. The only difference is theirs is not as robust. Hence when I became aware of the forum I have been using all the help available to make my WS more robust and prepare myself well for the day.
I just wish I'd known about the forums much earlier.

Grateful for all the help so far. Such an eye opener.

I will definitely come back with the outcome (fingers crossed a positive one)
Reading up on the forums I have seen the possible tricks the claimant may use and I will definitely not be falling into their traps thanks to all the advice available on here.

Now it's just about preparation and organisation.

Hoping to bring some good news on Friday

Thank you all
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southpaw82
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:51
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QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 18:02) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 17:18) *
Everything goes to the claimant as well as the court. You cannot have “private” correspondence with the judge.


ok will send these through on monday to both

are you able to help me look through the skeleton and make comments

thank you

It’s not how I would set it out but the idea of a skeleton is to assist you to make your oral representations to the court, so how you set it out is up to you - it’s a matter of personal preference. Normally, skeletons are sent to the court and other parties ahead of the hearing. However,, if you’re just using them as your own notes then you don’t have to do so and can remove the header if you so wish. I doubt very much that the court has ordered skeletons to be filed, has it?

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:52


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Deedee27
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 15:52
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:51) *
QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 18:02) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 17:18) *
Everything goes to the claimant as well as the court. You cannot have “private” correspondence with the judge.


ok will send these through on monday to both

are you able to help me look through the skeleton and make comments

thank you

It’s not how I would set it out but the idea of a skeleton is to assist you to make your oral representations to the court, so how you set it out is up to you - it’s a matter of personal preference. Normally, skeletons are sent to the court and other parties ahead of the hearing. However,, if you’re just using them as your own notes then you don’t have to do so and can remove the header if you so wish. I doubt very much that the court has ordered skeletons to be filed, has it?


No they have not.

I just thought useful from researching different posts on the forum.

Would you consider it an added advantage to send it?
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southpaw82
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 15:56
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QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 15:52) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:51) *
QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 18:02) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 17:18) *
Everything goes to the claimant as well as the court. You cannot have “private” correspondence with the judge.


ok will send these through on monday to both

are you able to help me look through the skeleton and make comments

thank you

It’s not how I would set it out but the idea of a skeleton is to assist you to make your oral representations to the court, so how you set it out is up to you - it’s a matter of personal preference. Normally, skeletons are sent to the court and other parties ahead of the hearing. However,, if you’re just using them as your own notes then you don’t have to do so and can remove the header if you so wish. I doubt very much that the court has ordered skeletons to be filed, has it?


No they have not.

I just thought useful from researching different posts on the forum.

Would you consider it an added advantage to send it?

I’d not send it if the court hasn’t asked for it and won’t be expecting it. I’d keep it just as your own notes for what you want to say, so it can be in whatever format you wish.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Deedee27
post Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 08:05
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 15:56) *
QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 15:52) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:51) *
QUOTE (Deedee27 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 18:02) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 17:18) *
Everything goes to the claimant as well as the court. You cannot have “private” correspondence with the judge.


ok will send these through on monday to both

are you able to help me look through the skeleton and make comments

thank you

It’s not how I would set it out but the idea of a skeleton is to assist you to make your oral representations to the court, so how you set it out is up to you - it’s a matter of personal preference. Normally, skeletons are sent to the court and other parties ahead of the hearing. However,, if you’re just using them as your own notes then you don’t have to do so and can remove the header if you so wish. I doubt very much that the court has ordered skeletons to be filed, has it?


No they have not.

I just thought useful from researching different posts on the forum.

Would you consider it an added advantage to send it?

I’d not send it if the court hasn’t asked for it and won’t be expecting it. I’d keep it just as your own notes for what you want to say, so it can be in whatever format you wish.


OK great

Thanks for advice, will use as a personal guide

All set with extra copies of everything

Can I give the cost schedule to the court and claimant on the day or do I need to send this in beforehand??
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 08:51
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Again, not been ordered so same day is fine
The reason to do it before is it might persuade them to quit the case, and puts them on notoice as to what youre claiming.
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Deedee27
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 09:07
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 08:51) *
Again, not been ordered so same day is fine
The reason to do it before is it might persuade them to quit the case, and puts them on notoice as to what youre claiming.


Ok

Thanks
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Deedee27
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 22:00
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 08:51) *
Again, not been ordered so same day is fine
The reason to do it before is it might persuade them to quit the case, and puts them on notoice as to what youre claiming.


Hello again,

Don't know if you or anyone else can help me out

I was sent a supplementary witness statement by the defendant this morning

can they do this..???

Do i need to do anything in response?

Thank you
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southpaw82
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 22:07
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I doubt the court is going to get too excited about it, particularly if there’s nothing particularly controversial in it. Does it present you with a problem?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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