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bus lane infringement
Mcginty
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:48
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Hi there
I am a bit of a novice with computers and I am really not sure how this forum works but here goes! I got a bus gate infringement ticket a few weeks ago at Edinburgh Road in Jarrow-one of the top earning bus lanes in the country so I have read. It has apparently raked in over £400k in about 15 months. I freely admit I went through the 'gate' but I think there is a total lack of signage and advance warnings. I wrote an informal appeal to the council but this has been rejected saying is adequate and complies with the current regulations. Whether this is true or not I don't know. If I post some detailed Photoes on here could someone give me an opinion please? I just think the council are using it as a cash cow and I know there has been many many complaints but obviously if more signage is erected the money flow will cease. Apologies if I am in the wrong place with this post but if I am could Admin move to the correct area please?
Mc
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post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:48
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Mcginty
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:06
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Excellent! thanks again.
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Mcginty
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 11:53
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Don't want to be a pain but can you check this before I upload to the Tribunal service please? Is it a direct copy of what you told me to upload but as I am not clever on computers just want to make sure it's right. Thanks
 
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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 08:30
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QUOTE (Mcginty @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 11:53) *
Don't want to be a pain but can you check this before I upload to the Tribunal service please? Is it a direct copy of what you told me to upload but as I am not clever on computers just want to make sure it's right. Thanks

Looks fine to me, I would just put it all in a single document, call it something like Grounds of Appeal.pdf and upload it to the tribunal website.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 17:33
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Thank you. I will be uploading the response from the Council regarding the camera approval which was received yesterday. I can't make head nor tail of what they have sent. There is no Edinburgh Road location mentioned which is where the offence occurred. They do mention the Sea Road Flow system which is in South Shields (another part of the borough) but that is nowhere near Edinburgh Road. I would like to hear your thoughts on this please. Thanks again. Hopefully get it uploaded tonight or tomorrow as my son is doing this for me.
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Mcginty
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 10:18
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I have uploaded the council response to my FOI here; https://imgur.com/a/oAvhX8b

I can't see how this complies but I will leave it to you guys to assess. Thanks
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 10:37
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Well they name the certificate we want to see (BLADM041) but don't attach it. Ring Neil Purvis and tell him they have not answered your FOI and ask that the certificate be emailed to you.

Mick
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cp8759
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 12:20
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Interesting as it may be to get the certificate, if you provide it to the tribunal you will have torpedoed ground 3 of your appeal. The adjudicator would be bound to say something like "The video would have been inadmissible, however that is not the case as Mr Mcginty has helpfully provided the certificate, so I am able to accept the video in evidence". You don't want to make the council's case for them.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 15:30
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Point taken. Best left as it is then? I assume the Adjudicator may ask the council to provide it though if he/she dismiss the other appeal grounds and are reliant on just the validity of the camera location license? If it goes through in my favour on the earlier grounds then I can chase the the certificate up at a later date.
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cp8759
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 17:11
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If the council don't provide the certificate, it's possible but unlikely that the adjudicator will ask them to provide it. It's far more likely he'll say the council hasn't proven its case and the appeal is allowed.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 19:15
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I will let you know how I come on. Thanks.
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Mcginty
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:05
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Hi again

on post 58 you have given me a link.. https://londontribunals.org.uk but this doesn't show the two cases? Is there a better(another) link for these? Thanks
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John U.K.
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:22
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QUOTE (Mcginty @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:05) *
Hi again

on post 58 you have given me a link.. https://londontribunals.org.uk but this doesn't show the two cases? Is there a better(another) link for these? Thanks



Go to the link, click on Statutory Registers, scroll down to Environment and Traffic Adjudicators (ETA) and select Search. Then you can search by case number.

This post has been edited by John U.K.: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 17:51
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cp8759
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 17:46
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QUOTE (Mcginty @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:05) *
Hi again

on post 58 you have given me a link.. https://londontribunals.org.uk but this doesn't show the two cases? Is there a better(another) link for these? Thanks

Either follow the instructions posted by John above, or you can grab the text from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVr...t#gid=642784037


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 19:26
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Thanks for that. I am submitting this tomorrow. I had asked the Tribunal for extra time but don't want to push my luck!
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Mcginty
post Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 19:12
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Followed up my FOI with the council for sight of their approval for this Busgate (BLADMO41) and received this! Now I might be missing something here so if necessary please enlighten me but I don't think that this complies at all. I had asked them for sight of a copy of the said certificate.

Dear Mr ****



Please see the following link



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...pproved-devices





Regards



Information Governance

South Tyneside Council
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Parm71
post Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 19:15
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Thank you so much guys!!!! Fingers crossed. Will update with results
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 21:02
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QUOTE (Mcginty @ Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 19:12) *
Followed up my FOI with the council for sight of their approval for this Busgate (BLADMO41) and received this! Now I might be missing something here so if necessary please enlighten me but I don't think that this complies at all. I had asked them for sight of a copy of the said certificate.

Dear Mr ****



Please see the following link



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...pproved-devices





Regards



Information Governance

South Tyneside Council



No and thrice no! That's not what you asked for.

Of course there is a spreadsheet from VCA, why wouldn't there be.

What we need is the specific authorisation sent to the Council or its "agent".

I don't know if this is incompetence or they're hiding the certificate/approval.

Mick
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Mcginty
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 07:22
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Or perhaps the haven't got it?
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Mcginty
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 10:13
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Just spoken with South Tyneside Council (Neil Purvis) and he informs me that they have a certificate for the camera approval for the whole borough and that the Edinburgh Road location was added to this upon their application to the DOT. I have asked him for a copy of the original certificate pertaining to the whole borough so we'll see what happens now.
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Mcginty
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 11:32
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Email response this morning form South Tyneside Council; Message classification: Not Protectively Marked



Dear Mr *****,



Please find attached a copy of the certificate. This was issued in 2010 and covers the Borough of South Tyneside.



As previously stated, if you are not happy with the response you can request an Internal Review which will be conducted by our Head of Legal Services. If you would like to request an Internal Review please let me know your reasons for requesting a review and I will arrange this.



Regards



Neil Purvis

Information Governance

The link supplied states; (Copied ans pasted) Date: 14th June 2010
TRANSPORT ACT 2000
CERTIFICATION OF “APPROVED DEVICES” UNDER ARTICLE 2(b) OF
THE BUS LANES (APPROVED DEVICES) (ENGLAND) ORDER 2005
(i.e. for a device that is not: of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary
of State under section 20(9) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (prescribed devices
for the purposes of speeding and other offences); nor a device of a type that was used
prior to 1 November 2005 for the purpose of bus lane enforcement under Part II (bus
lanes) of the London Local Authorities Act 1996.
Certificate Number: BLADM 041
Technical Construction File: SEA/10/TR/9072 RoadFlow Issue 3
System: RoadFlow (with Imperial Civil Enforcement Solutions (ICES) Incident
Review Facility)
Manufacturer: Systems Engineering and Assessment Ltd, (SEA).
I am directed by the Secretary of State to refer to your application for
certification of an “approved device” dated 8th March 2010.
After a review of the information provided in the technical construction file
specified above, the Secretary of State considers that the device described
therein is suitable for civil Bus Lane Enforcement in England in the following
circumstances.
The device may be used by individual Traffic Authorities once they have
declared to the Secretary of State, and received an acknowledgement on his
behalf, that the certified equipment will be used as supplied by the
manufacturer and in accordance with his recommendations or as modified by
agreement with the Secretary of State.
I consider the device described in your application to be of a type which falls
within the description specified in article 2(b) of the Bus Lanes (Approved
Devices) (England) Order 2005 as meeting the criteria specified in paragraphs
2 to 6 of the Schedule to that Order and hereby certify it accordingly
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