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bus lane infringement
Mcginty
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:48
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Hi there
I am a bit of a novice with computers and I am really not sure how this forum works but here goes! I got a bus gate infringement ticket a few weeks ago at Edinburgh Road in Jarrow-one of the top earning bus lanes in the country so I have read. It has apparently raked in over £400k in about 15 months. I freely admit I went through the 'gate' but I think there is a total lack of signage and advance warnings. I wrote an informal appeal to the council but this has been rejected saying is adequate and complies with the current regulations. Whether this is true or not I don't know. If I post some detailed Photoes on here could someone give me an opinion please? I just think the council are using it as a cash cow and I know there has been many many complaints but obviously if more signage is erected the money flow will cease. Apologies if I am in the wrong place with this post but if I am could Admin move to the correct area please?
Mc
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post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:48
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Mcginty
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 15:20
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Thank you.
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Mcginty
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 10:17
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Thanks. I telephoned the South Tyneside Parking Team yesterday and asked for a copy of the video footage or a link so I could view it. They blankly refused saying it would only be available if it goes to tribunal level. How do I stand with that please? I now have a matter of a few days to avail of the discount-not that I am going to go for that. I will take this to tribunal level. I have been informed our local MP Lwellen Buck has also written to the council on the issue of signage but the council insist the signs are correct and that may very well be but other factors come into play here. The road markings are not in keeping with good practice guidelines as they keep you on Edinburgh Road at the bus gate rather than diverting into Stirling Avenue. This is a cash cow for the council and they obviously don't want to change anything that will stop the money rolling in.
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cp8759
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 10:44
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Do they record the phone calls? If not, use a call recording app, call them again and see if they say the same thing again (use a non-confrontational approach, such as "I understand you will only provide the video if the case goes to the tribunal, could you please confirm whether my understanding is correct?")

If you can get them on record saying you can only see the video once the case goes to the tribunal, you're virtually guaranteed to win.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 11:09
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 10:44) *
Do they record the phone calls? If not, use a call recording app, call them again and see if they say the same thing again (use a non-confrontational approach, such as "I understand you will only provide the video if the case goes to the tribunal, could you please confirm whether my understanding is correct?")

If you can get them on record saying you can only see the video once the case goes to the tribunal, you're virtually guaranteed to win.


The PCn contains the required information re viewing (that you can pick a time and council office in order to view)


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cp8759
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 11:14
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 11:09) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 10:44) *
Do they record the phone calls? If not, use a call recording app, call them again and see if they say the same thing again (use a non-confrontational approach, such as "I understand you will only provide the video if the case goes to the tribunal, could you please confirm whether my understanding is correct?")

If you can get them on record saying you can only see the video once the case goes to the tribunal, you're virtually guaranteed to win.


The PCn contains the required information re viewing (that you can pick a time and council office in order to view)

And the council must comply with such a request within "a reasonable time", if they say you can't see the video at all, they might struggle to convince the tribunal that they complied with this requirement.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 11:38
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OP--- you might also ask for a copy of the camera approval for this location. This would be a letter sent by VCA----some of the older ones were addressed to APCOA.

Mick
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Mcginty
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 13:33
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Thanks for the info. Just for clarity, I have seen the video on a laptop at the town hall a couple of weeks ago but when I asked for a copy or a link there I was told I could not have one as it breached data protection! Does the fact I have viewed the video alter any of the above advice?
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Mcginty
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 15:31
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Just one more question, would I be required to tell whoever I was speaking to that I was recording them?
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:04
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If you have seen it, it alters all of the advise. They have complied with the regs. But still ask for a copy of the camera approval


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Mcginty
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 19:31
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Thanks again..so the may/will comes back into play? What about the 'best practice' with the white lines on the road? The lines take a driver straight into the bus gate. The bus gate should be the side road. Surely they should be guiding the motorist into the diversion of Stirling Avenue??
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cp8759
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 21:16
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Will / may seems your best bet at this point.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 15:02
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Hi again
I have had the response from the council re camera approval and they have responded as per attached saying they cannot send out this info without a FOI form. They also state the will NOT entertain any further correspondence on the matter as a decision has been made- a notice of rejection has also been received.

This post has been edited by Mcginty: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 17:51
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Mcginty
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 15:13
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Just a little add-on, I have been having a chat with a retired councillor who retired earlier in the year and he was totally against the busgate from day 1. He told me that the total of fines collected up to a few months ago was £1.75 million. He got this information under a freedom of information request. I will ask him if he is willing to give me a copy. You have to remember that this Busgate has only been operating since July 2017 so must be very near the top of the tree in earnings across the country. This is just on a council estate and not a major road which makes it all the more shocking. I would appeal to anyone with a good knowledge of Bus gate ( lane) law for help. It is not about the money and I will happily give the money to charity if I win this appeal.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 15:19
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Re need to see a full readable copy of the notice of rejection (redact only your personal details.

do not mix up complaints re the bus lane its self and your appeal against this PCN they are different things entirely


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Mcginty
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 17:50
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Thank you. I am sure I had done so earlier in the thread where you mentioned will-may? but I can't find the link. Here it is again. https://imgur.com/a/mutHfEc

The pics I have provided give a false impression of distance-it is easy to see the signage when a picture is taken in front of it!
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 19:43
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You have the envelope that the notice of rejection came in postmarked what date?

This should win on its own but with the will/may as well, you are in a strong position.

You must register your appeal by the 1st of Jan. I suggest you register it online and in the box for submission write full details submissions to follow. The TPT will then give you a date by when you must submit we can then help you draft a strong submission


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Mcginty
post Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 05:45
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I don't have that envelope. What they sent me on Friday gone was a copy. The original rejection letter was posted out on the 3rd December according to the date on it but it was the 10th that I received it. Probably lay on someones tray for a while. I will do as you say and lodge the appeal before 1st January. Thank you for the help with this.
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cp8759
post Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 18:33
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PASTMYBEST I can't see the will/may, but it looks like the NoR doesn't comply with regulation 10(4)(g) which I have to say seems very odd, I'm not sure I've seen this sort of flaw before.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 21:33
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Posts 14 and 15 are relevant to the will/may but I am struggling to find the NOR in the link that you commented on at that stage.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 22:50
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 23 Dec 2018 - 18:33) *
PASTMYBEST I can't see the will/may, but it looks like the NoR doesn't comply with regulation 10(4)(g) which I have to say seems very odd, I'm not sure I've seen this sort of flaw before.


Underneath the TPT web code box on the last page


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