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bus lane infringement
Mcginty
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:48
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Hi there
I am a bit of a novice with computers and I am really not sure how this forum works but here goes! I got a bus gate infringement ticket a few weeks ago at Edinburgh Road in Jarrow-one of the top earning bus lanes in the country so I have read. It has apparently raked in over £400k in about 15 months. I freely admit I went through the 'gate' but I think there is a total lack of signage and advance warnings. I wrote an informal appeal to the council but this has been rejected saying is adequate and complies with the current regulations. Whether this is true or not I don't know. If I post some detailed Photoes on here could someone give me an opinion please? I just think the council are using it as a cash cow and I know there has been many many complaints but obviously if more signage is erected the money flow will cease. Apologies if I am in the wrong place with this post but if I am could Admin move to the correct area please?
Mc
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post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:48
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peterguk
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:54
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Post all sides of PCN, your appeal and their rejection. Redact only your name, address, PCN number and VRN.

Also a link to GSV and the video.


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Mcginty
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 21:08
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Thanks. I will do that tomorrow evening. I am not sure what you mean by GSV? There is no link available with South Tyneside to the video. I had to go to the Town Hall and view. I asked for a copy but was told I could not have one due to data protection.

This post has been edited by Mcginty: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 21:10
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Incandescent
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 22:09
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GSV = Google Street View

I think we've seen this location before on here, but it was some time ago.
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Mcginty
post Wed, 5 Dec 2018 - 15:17
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Scanner is jammed! Hopefully get it sorted tomorrow.
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Mcginty
post Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 12:58
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Part 1 of 11
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Mcginty
post Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 13:10
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Having issues with uploading the pictures so I've created a dropbox link here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rchc9np55wp9vow/...nYHOLDIGba?dl=0
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cp8759
post Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 15:45
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Well for starters they use unusual wording to describe the contravention, it would normally be "Being in a bus lane". Upload the other pages of the PCN, there might be more errors.

Also get hold of the video, and post a link to the location on Google Street View.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 17:13
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Thanks. All of the correspondence and documents have been uploaded via the dropbox link..can you view? I had difficulty just trying to upload in the normal manner-kept saying it was uploading and then it just disappeared after upload? Hence I had to get my lad on board for help. Here is the Google link;https://www.instantstreetview.com/@54.966233,-1.468958,15.43h,5p,0.09z I don't think it will give much info for you as it is an old view?

How do I get hold of the video as they have refused saying it was a breach of data protection? Could I SARS them? Thanks for your help. Mc
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cp8759
post Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 17:48
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As far as I can tell you've uploaded the first page of the PCN, your representations, and the notice of rejection. We need to see the other pages of the original PCN.

imgur.com is a good site to upload stuff, you can put it on there and post a link.

As Google Street View is out of date it's imperative we see the video, there should be no issue getting the video if it's your name on the PCN, in fact by law the PCN must tell you how you can see the video (that's why we must see all the pages of the PCN, if certain legal wording is missing, the PCN is invalid). The council website also has an enquiry number, 0191 424 7900, if all else fails give them a call, tell them you have a bus lane PCN and want to know how you can get the video. Do not use a SAR, it would take far too long.

Also, if you can, get some up to date pictures of the bus gate and post them too.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 17:48


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 19:30
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There was a total of 11 uploads, can you confirm that is the view you are getting?
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Mcginty
post Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 20:30
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https://imgur.com/a/mutHfEc

I have uploaded pics of the bus gate and road leading to it and there is also a couple of pics of Stirling avenue which is the street you are diverted into. You will note that cars are parked on both sides of the pavement making it it impossible for two way traffic which Stirling avenue is. The pic with the white car gives a view of the signage about 50 metres from it but you will notice there is quite a bend on the road at that point that draws your attention to possible oncoming traffic.
Attached thumbnail(s)
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cp8759
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 12:32
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Well the signage looks clear enough, not sure what else you expected them to do. At this point you best bet is to upload all the pages of the PCN, so we can check for errors in the small print.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mcginty
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 19:05
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I have uploaded the PCN docs here; https://imgur.com/a/bV5LNUc

In January of this year a lady did win an appeal and I am told of one or two others but there doesn't seem to be any online info on them.

https://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/council...ppeal-1-8975587


40 people a week are driving through this bus gate and I am sure most of them, like myself, are not doing it intentionally. The bus gate is on a council estate-not even a main A road.


Although I have no statistics I doubt many of them will be local.


The road markings lead you into the bus gate as they are continuous and do not follow the divert into Stirling Avenue. Stirling Avenue is on a couple of my pics uploaded earlier. It is

the street where there are cars double parked on the pavement. This is what drivers are faced with when diverting into this street.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 20:24
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There is a will/may on the NoR


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Mcginty
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 22:25
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??
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 23:32
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QUOTE (Mcginty @ Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 22:25) *
??


this case explains

2160167824

The second contention concerns wording in the Notice of Rejection letter which Mr Dishman maintains is not compliant with the governing legislation by dint of its employment (again) of the word will instead of may.
Regulation 6 of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 requires that the Notice of Rejection contains certain information including that the Enforcement Authority may serve a charge certificate.
The Notice of Rejection in this matter states that the Enforcement Authority will serve a charge certificate.
Again the inclusion of the word 'will' imports a fixed and persistent intent, as distinguished from 'may' which expresses a possibility.
The legislature chose the word may, to my mind, to reflect the fact that the Enforcement Authority is bestowed with discretion which may be invoked at any stage, thus the issue of a charge certificate cannot be taken as a foregone conclusion.
I do not accept the theory that the word will reflects a greater warning element, since its meaning is distinctly at variance to that of the word may.
Mr Dishman cites previous PATAS/ETA Cases in support.
The Enforcement Authority quote from PATAS/ETA Case Decisions.
Each Case is determined upon its individual evidential merit and an Adjudicator's interpretation of the governing law; my finding in this Case is that the Notice of Rejection letter is substantially non-compliant since I consider that there to be manifest distinction between 'may' and 'will' which is substantial as opposed to semantics. Therefore I find the Notice of Rejection to be invalid, thus this Penalty Charge Notice cannot be enforced.


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Mcginty
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 11:23
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Thank you. I am struggling to find the actual case. Was this at tribunal level or High Court? Sorry to be so naive but I haven't got a clue and am relying on what help I can muster on this forum to help with my appeal.

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Mcginty
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 12:43
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Can you provide a link to the actual case please?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 12:49
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QUOTE (Mcginty @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 12:43) *
Can you provide a link to the actual case please?



https://londontribunals.org.uk/



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