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Loitering,littering and and anti-social driving ?, Warning
DaveyBadBoy
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 06:36
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Morning,

My daughter was recently parked in a car park with 2 other vehicles. 1 of the other drivers had days previously received a warning from the police about frequenting a particular location, loitering,revving loudly and throwing McDonald wrappers out of the window. My daughter has never been to this location with her friend or as a group.

My daughter was approached by the same officer who had issued the warning to her friend days earlier. The officer asked was her name "XXXX". My daughter said no, she was then asked to confirm her name which she did. She was then asked was she aware of a particular address, she said no. The officer then went on describe where the address was in more detail, my daughter then realised she did know the address. The officer then asked her had she ever been there and my daughter said "maybe twice,but ages ago". The police lady then said we have a letter for you too. End of conversation. My daughter returned home and told us of the events.

The next day the Police arrived at our address with a brown hand written envelope. Officer said she was issuing a warning letter because our vehicle had been reported revving loudly, throwing litter and being driven anti socially at said address.

I asked what date did these offences take place, as 4 family members drive that vehicle, officer said there are no dates but this cars reg has "been reported" to us as being "part of a group" responsible. I repeated again I would like dates as the vehicle has a tracker for insurance purposes that records everything including location and manner of driving including speed,corenering acceleration and braking rates. And is scored daily.We also have CCTV at home to prove if the car was actually in use at all the times she said it was being anti social. Again I was told there was no dates ?

I put the letter straight in the bin without opening it in front of the officer and said if you cant provide dates, or incident numbers of the alledged offences I cannot take the warning seriously.

We was warned if alledged behavior is repeated the car will be seized.

I got the car keys out and started the car for the officer, it s a tiny 1.0 litre with a really quiet engine its barely audible, i revved it up for him and said are you seriously saying the noise is anti social ? The officer agreed it was a really quiet car but said if my daughter carrys on going to that place and driving around with "the others" they would seize the car. She does not go to that place but historically the car has been there, twice in its lifetime. Weeks and weeks ago.

Officer said "its a only a letter this time but next time it will be more serious".

Anybody have any idea what has just gone on and whether its legally enforceable?

Many Thanks


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mickR
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:48
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Some plod are using section59 as an intimidative tool. My son was threatened with vehicle confiscation along with one other vehicle simply for being in the vicinity of a meet which wasn't actually happening and there were no other cars around. His car was not loud or anti social in any way a 6 month old factory spec car.
In the OPs case, assuming the fact are exactly as described I would also question the process. To serve a s59 where there appears to be no corroberated evidence seems an abuse of authority.

This post has been edited by mickR: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:49
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Logician
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 20:37
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QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:48) *
Some plod are using section59 as an intimidative tool. My son was threatened with vehicle confiscation along with one other vehicle simply for being in the vicinity of a meet which wasn't actually happening and there were no other cars around. His car was not loud or anti social in any way a 6 month old factory spec car. In the OPs case, assuming the fact are exactly as described I would also question the process. To serve a s59 where there appears to be no corroberated evidence seems an abuse of authority.


The police are now obtaining court orders forbidding various activities in areas which have been used for car meets, one of those is driving in convoy which of course would not normally be anti-social or anything else. If your son and the other car drove together to an area covered by such an order, they would be breaching it. In fact it is a risk now for anyone to be even in the area of a car meet.



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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 21:27
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 20:37) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:48) *
Some plod are using section59 as an intimidative tool. My son was threatened with vehicle confiscation along with one other vehicle simply for being in the vicinity of a meet which wasn't actually happening and there were no other cars around. His car was not loud or anti social in any way a 6 month old factory spec car. In the OPs case, assuming the fact are exactly as described I would also question the process. To serve a s59 where there appears to be no corroberated evidence seems an abuse of authority.


The police are now obtaining court orders forbidding various activities in areas which have been used for car meets, one of those is driving in convoy which of course would not normally be anti-social or anything else. If your son and the other car drove together to an area covered by such an order, they would be breaching it. In fact it is a risk now for anyone to be even in the area of a car meet.

Surely court orders have to be served to be binding on individuals, or at the very least the individuals bound by them must be made aware of their existence. AFAIK imputed knowledge applies to enactments passed by Parliament and the devolved legislatures, but not to court orders.


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Posts in this topic
- DaveyBadBoy   Loitering,littering and and anti-social driving ?   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 06:36
- - Dwaynedouglas   I suspect the answer is in the letter you threw aw...   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 07:12
- - The Rookie   Throwing the letter away was rather silly* to say ...   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 08:58
- - AntonyMMM   The letter may have had better information or an e...   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 09:43
- - Churchmouse   Section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002. It help...   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 12:58
- - Darkatmosphere   Only options here are speaking with the force area...   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 20:59
|- - cp8759   QUOTE (Darkatmosphere @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 ...   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22:34
|- - Darkatmosphere   QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 22...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:21
|- - The Rookie   QUOTE (Darkatmosphere @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 ...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 12:03
|- - Darkatmosphere   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 1...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 15:27
- - notmeatloaf   Maybe me being sceptical but if my daughter told m...   Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:17
- - mickR   Some plod are using section59 as an intimidative t...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:48
|- - Logician   QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 20:37
|- - cp8759   QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 20...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 21:27
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 21...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 22:52
||- - cp8759   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 2...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 10:17
||- - southpaw82   QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 10...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 11:27
||- - cp8759   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 1...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 12:37
|- - Logician   QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 21...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 01:52
- - cp8759   To be honest the best way forward in this scenario...   Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 19:16
- - The Rookie   Will you be able to import it after Brexit? .........   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 11:39
- - NewJudge   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 1...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 13:36
|- - cp8759   QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 13...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 14:16
- - cabbyman   I thought that a notice published in the London Ga...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 13:45
- - NewJudge   Yes I get your point, cp. An interesting topic wit...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 14:38
- - Logician   An interesting discussion but the police would ver...   Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 14:51
- - bearclaw   QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 01...   Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 09:50
|- - typefish   QUOTE (bearclaw @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 09...   Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 14:42
|- - peterguk   QUOTE (bearclaw @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 09...   Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 14:54
|- - Fredd   QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 14...   Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 15:37
||- - peterguk   QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 15...   Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 15:45
|- - cp8759   QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 14...   Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 19:08
- - peodude   There has been an injunction across the Black Coun...   Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 12:11


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