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Staff Permit Bay
MHU
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 22:03
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Hi
I got this ticket through the post today

https://imgur.com/xWMiQwN

I was parked in a staff permit holders parking bay (there is a sign ) but my baby was admitted into hospital and i was in a rush to get inside.
She is on oxygen tank, so i have a disabled badge and i could not find a suitable bay to park in to get the equipment out. So i parked and went in from there

No ticket was displayed on windscreen, just got the letter today.

Is it worth even appealing or just pay the reduced £20?

Thanks




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post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 22:03
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Jlc
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 22:58
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Do you have pictures of the signs?

I'm interested in the entity on there, especially since the paperwork mentions NCP (EUK)...

The hospital PALS may be able to assist.

£20 is almost quite reasonable but hold on a moment.

The period of parking is somewhat dubious for keeper liability.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 23:16
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Yes, definitely PALS. stress the urgency of the situation and the fact that a Blue Badge was being displayed.
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MHU
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 09:28
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I do not have pictures of the sign, but it is literraly a white board that says Staff Parking Only (Or Staff Permit Holders Only)
I did not see a NCP Sign, might be one around there somewhere but did not notice it in the rush.

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ostell
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 09:58
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So basically the sign was not offering a parking contract so they can't claim for a breach and with no name on the sign then who was the contract with.?

If contacting PALS does not get results see if you can get photos of the area and the signs.

There has been a successful cancel thus week using PALS
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Jlc
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 10:09
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QUOTE (MHU @ Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 09:28) *
I do not have pictures of the sign, but it is literraly a white board that says Staff Parking Only (Or Staff Permit Holders Only)

That sign cannot form a contract...

QUOTE (MHU @ Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 09:28) *
I did not see a NCP Sign, might be one around there somewhere but did not notice it in the rush.

Might be worth checking - any alleged contract can be formed even if you didn't notice them. (As long as they are sufficient)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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MHU
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 10:48
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I will contact PALS and if no luck, then i will go there and take some pictures

thanks
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MHU
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 00:06
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So yesterday i got another ticket for the 15/01/2020 for over staying in a free 30min bay

My daughter was in hospital all week, and i was in and out the hospital so i did not go in the main car park or it would have cost me an arm and a leg, instead i used the free bay with the disabled badge. As then i can park for 3 hours.

I left 2 messages for PALS and not had a call back yet

So this evening i visited the same area and there is no NCP Parking sign up in the area.

the signs are these:

https://imgur.com/lx0fLUE


https://imgur.com/KOTlKBZ

That is it.

There is no sign all the way to these spots.

There is a proper car park which is way before this, and the NCP sign is at the entrace off that parking. But you do not go directly past it so to anyone driving past would not see it.

I did see a sign on my way out, literally by the exit, on the opposite side of the road.

I am guessing i have good grounds to appeal on the basis i did not enter into any contract as no signs are present.

Also i now understand why it is £20, no signs .. people see the cheap price and just pay it
Also they don't leave the ticket on the windscreen and post it out.

https://imgur.com/R9NXvTQ

This is the route i took
1 - where i parked on 14/01 - Staff Permit
2 - where i parked on 15/01 - free 30min bay

Both times my badge was on display
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 08:18
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1) Your badge is irrelevant. Its private land, and as you know from your booklet, your badge does not grant you ANY free parking on private land, not unless the landholder offers it. You do not get 3 hours free.
2) Nothing there states you are entering a contract with anyone, let alone NCP; it does not offer a contract, it does not specify a sum etc
3) Easy appeal that AT THAT LOCATION *NCP* signs are not visible, in fact the only signs are from the hospital and they do not offer a contract. Should be an easy POPLA win IF theyre on their toes.
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MHU
post Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 17:52
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can someone formulate a response for me?

or just say appealing on the grounds that there are no NCP Signs at the parking locations.
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ostell
post Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 19:04
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For PALS not responding then get in touch with the CEO's office and rattle their cage.

Just say that you are the registered keeper of car VRM and have received their VRM number xxxx

Any debt to you is is denied. The driver reported that no signs from you were visible from the location where they parked. I have visited that location and I agree with the observation. The driver therefore cannot possibly have created a contract with yourself and without a contract there can be no breach of conditions to give rise to a charge.

There are signs at the location that were incapable of creating a contract to park, the only possible claim therefore would be by the landholder, who is not you, for trespass

As there is no liability to you I do not expect hear from you again, or any debt collector, other than to confirm you will not be taking any further action.

I also require that you remove my personal details from your records as you have no reasonable reason for keeping them and to do so will be a contravention GDPR, a criminal act.

Yours faithfully etc
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MHU
post Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 22:18
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PALS rang me back, and said on first instance do the appeal then we get visibility of it and we can take it from there.
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ostell
post Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 22:23
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And the next statement will be they can't handle it because you have appealed. Just call me cynical

Can you continue with PALS via email so that you have a record of what they are promising.
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MHU
post Wed, 29 Jan 2020 - 23:03
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Email Sent to PALS

Appealed the tickets - response within 35 days!!
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MHU
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 09:17
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Had this response via email today

Re: Parking Charge Notice Number XXXXXXXX (Vehicle: )
Site: Blackburn Hospital
Contravention date and time: 14/01/2020 15:16:26
POPLA Code: XXXXXXX
Further to the appeal submitted for the above mentioned Charge Notice recently issued at Blackburn Hospital. The vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice for Parking without displaying a valid parking permit. Vehicle Registration: XXXXXX
I am sorry to advise you that your Charge Notice has been upheld and therefore there is a charge of £20 to reach us by 14/02/2020 or £40 to reach us by 28/02/2020.
If the charge is not paid within 35 days collection will be pursued by civil action by requesting the vehicles keeper details from the DVLA and the driver may also be liable for payment of any additional costs incurred in collecting the charge.
You can pay the total amount due as shown above via the following payment options:
Online: Please visit www.ncp.co.uk/pcn to make payment online (Select EM box)
By Phone: Please call 03330230136 to use our automated payment system. This number is a 24 hour automated service for payments only, using a debit or credit card.


AS a POPLA code has been provided, shall i just do a POPLA appeal now? if so, then with the same wording as the prev appeals?

This post has been edited by MHU: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 10:40
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MHU
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 09:48
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This is the email response from PALS


Dear Mr


Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately we cannot assist with parking fines etc. Please follow the appeals process as directed in the letters you have received.



Kind Regards

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 10:47
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GO in and talk to them in person
Remind them THEY hired these scum, they are not fines. and tehy have been INSTrUCTED by their bosses to ensure patients are NOT penalised (NHS parking principles). THey can indeed help, have been instructed to do so by their bosses, and it is something they have to do.

POPLA appeal - up to you. I would say YES, but it depends on whether £20 is ok for your to pay or not.
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MHU
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 10:57
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 10:47) *
GO in and talk to them in person
Remind them THEY hired these scum, they are not fines. and tehy have been INSTrUCTED by their bosses to ensure patients are NOT penalised (NHS parking principles). THey can indeed help, have been instructed to do so by their bosses, and it is something they have to do.

POPLA appeal - up to you. I would say YES, but it depends on whether £20 is ok for your to pay or not.


i got 2 tickets, so its £40.

Problem is i work Monday to Friday 9-5.30 so would not get to the office in time to speak to someone in person.

Might go down the POPLA route, as there is no NCP Parking Contract up ...

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 10:58
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They work at weekends as well. THey obviously have to....

You need to thoroughly research POPLA appeals, dont give us a rubbish 10 line one. Theyre big docs.
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MHU
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 11:10
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i will see if i can draft something together this week
Might struggle .. with my daughter not being so well and being back at work, spare time is short

Any help in drafting would be much appreciated

not having a great time!
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