NTK from MET Parking Services no PCN received, private company Options

[bella(trying to ...]

Hi again,

Received a Notice to Keeper today dated 13th Jan 2020.

Stated date of contravention 20th December 2019. (exceeding a time limited stay)

Driver is unknown.

Private parking company, BPA stamp on the bottom of the letter.

any advise please?? should we appeal and will we need to obtain a POPLA code?


thanks in advance

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[ostell]

You need:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc

First class mail with free certificate of posting from any post office.

Post up the redacted PCN to see what other POFA fails are there if/when it goes toPOPLA.

[bella(trying to ...]

Perfect, Thank you.

Should we appeal both online, (as stated on they're NTK) and also written letter, sent in Royal mail post?

will they automatically reply with a redaction? NTK states if we appeal online we should get a response within 35 days.

This post has been edited by bella(trying to work): Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 23:20

[nosferatu1001]

Just online, make sure you check junk mail daily.
They will auto reject, possibly. MET are one of the better ones for occasionally accepting appeals, esp when they know they re going to lose at POPLA.

[bella(trying to ...]

Thanks for all your help here with this.

We have just Appealed on line and will send a written response by post (signed for/cheap tracked) just to cover all bases.

Is it possible that they will consider the xmas holiday dates as "days not counted" with regards to the 14 day's POFA?

[nosferatu1001]

NEVER send ANYTHING signed for!
First class, free proof of posintg
PPCs routinely refuse to sign for letters, meaning all you have is proof they DIDNT receive it.
Not worth the price of a stampo

They can consider whatever they like. The law doesnt give two figs, however. It sates 14 days, not 14 working day

[bella(trying to ...]

Yes your total right about the law not giving 2 figs!!

Thanks for the reminder too that signed for is also an excuse NOT to sign for

1st class stamp it will be then.

Just goes to show how nerve racking and anxious dealing with this stuff is.

Thank you again for the simple and valuable guidance.

We will let you know how this unfolds.

[nosferatu1001]

Frankly, dont bother with a letter. Why waste a tree on a scammer?

[bella(trying to ...]

Hi again,

Totally right about a "scammer" They are the ones now wasting Trees!!

Appeal was made on Friday 17th Jan, and yesterday we received 3 more NTK's in the post.

These are contravention date 29th December 2019, 3rd Jan 2020, & 12th Jan 2020.

Date of issue of these notices is 20th Jan 2020 (after we'd appealed the first one)

We are now edging into the "vexatious and harassment" area of our first appeal letter.

will we now have to appeal all three individually on line again?

These have been sent within the 14 days, so not sure if we can still quote section 9 (4) of the POF Act 2012 Schedule 4

Pictures are too dark and only of the vehicle reg is visible. Not able to identify drive.

any help and advice on this is gratefully appreciated.

[nosferatu1001]

Erm, POFA does not state SENT, does it? It states GIVEN. Given means served ie received.

For an incident dated 29th December it coul dnot possibly have been recieved within 14 days, if it was only issued on the 20th Jan!

ONLY the 12th Jan one is in time
YES you appeal individually, but given you can cpoy and paste at least two of them its not hard.

So - do they claim to have followed POFA for the 2 older ones? Simple yes or no. You know, we dont. Just look and see what they state. IF they do, then that is a complaint to the respecive trade body; they KNOW they cannot have complied with POFA, because they didnt even issue them until after the 14 days to serve was over.

[bella(trying to ...]

The NTK are all the same and doesn't state "SENT" or "GIVEN" anywhere on them that I can see, they only stated "DATE OF ISSUE OF THIS NOTICE 20th JANUARY 2020"

Yes, the 29th December 2019 & 3rd Jan 2020 are beyond the 14 days, so we will be sending the same letter (adjusted with the Charge notice numbers) but are not sure what to do about the 12th Jan one??

[ostell]

So post up a redacted copy of the NTK that they have sent in time and everyone will look for the other POFA fails

[bella(trying to ...]

https://imgur.com/8obpPCO Pg1 front page

https://imgur.com/xe43rFd pg2 back page

These are from the 1st NTK but they're all identical.

Hope this helps

[bella(trying to ...]

OK, now I get where your coming from....

The one that IS "GIVEN" in date 12th January 2020 (date of contravention) 20th Jan 2020 (Date of Issue of this notice).....

has an extra paragraph added (highlighted in photo link)

https://imgur.com/mdb8quo

so they DO KNOW that they are sending out, OUT OF DATE NTK's because we have had 3 prior to this one....


Clearly they are trying to extort payments knowingly sending Out of Time (14days) NTK

This post has been edited by bella(trying to work): Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 13:05

[ostell]

Yes they know they are not compliant with POFA but hope that you don't realise it.

That extra paragraph is required by POFA 9 (2) (f)

I can't see any errors in the NTK apart from no period of parking. Why did the driver stay for nearly 5 hours?

[bella(trying to ...]

so how do we appeal the 12th January NTK?

The company is clearly not acting appropriately if they issue 2 differing NTK's one with wording omitted in the hope people wont notice the missing POFA which is required.

These all seem like attempts to harass and extort.

[bella(trying to ...]

We believe the area has only just had signage put up and we may need to visit the site to check the size, height and print of the signage around.

Is there any point in us challenging the 12th January NTK?
or just put up and pay up?

[nosferatu1001]

What do you think? On your RESEARCH on here, how many times have people been told to pay?

What other failures of POFA have you found? POFA2012 schedule 4 para 9. Youve read it by now, yes? Checked off everything theyve missed?

[bella(trying to ...]

We've visited the site today to get photos of the area and signage, so are in the process of drafting up an appeal letter based on one we did 2017 after receiving a PCN (ticket stuck on windscreen notice) but for this instance MET parking haven't issued a ticket or notice to driver, just seem to be obtaining keeper details and posting out NTK's as PCN and assumes Keeper IS driver.

Our previous appeal quotes:


"The wording in the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 is as follows:

''Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle:
4(1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle. (2) The right under this paragraph applies only if

(a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6*, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met;

*Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4:
6(1) ''The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)— (a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8. This is re-iterated further ‘If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper MUST be given in accordance with paragraph 8."

We are currently in the process of adding photo's and slightly amending areas and hope to be posting it up here tomorrow, for viewing and any welcome any comments.

The appeal will also focus on inadequacy of the sites signage etc and will touch on the fact that disabled drivers are put at a substantial disadvantage with regards to the signage also, as they're signage states "There are no concessions for disabled badge holders"

(incidentally one of our family members who does have access to this vehicle and usage, is a disabled badge holder who would struggle to see, read, find and comprehend the signage, let alone, be able to comply and agree to the "maximum Stay 30 mins" terms and condition)

we are not sure how to address the time stay of 294 mins and believe this may be an error in they're ANPR camera's and timings? does this happen or is it a myth?

[ostell]

Forget the statements about notice to driver, it wasn't given and is irrelevant. You are using para 9