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Shopping Centre Parking Ticket
Russ H
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 09:43
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[code][/code]Morning All,

A vehicle in the below PCN received a parking ticket from a private company representing a local shopping complex in Birmingham.
It states that the vehicle was parked in a restricted area.

Thanks

This post has been edited by Russ H: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 16:42
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post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 09:43
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ostell
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 10:11
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So this is a hire car and the PCN is a copy that the hire company received and forwarded to you ?

Edit the first post so that the identity of the driver cannot be determined. Use "the driver ......." etc. Most important.

You now wait for your very own copy of the PCN addressed to you. To hold the hirer liable they have also to include a copy of the hire agreement and the original PCN. Most parking companies fail to do this and therefore cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the hire/keeper and so no liability under POFA.

If the documents are not provided then your response is:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


First class post with free certificate of posting from a post office.

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 10:14
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Russ H
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 10:52
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Thanks Ostell

This post has been edited by Russ H: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 16:39
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 11:27
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EDIT THAT DAMNED POST

You MUST NOT identify the driver.
That advice is in every single thread

AND

You were just told it.

I realy, really doubt the lessee is the REGISTERED keeper, given if they were they would
a) have hold of the V5
b) have been contacted first. How do you htink the leasing firm was contacted? Because theyre the RK.

The lessee is the vehicles hirer. Nothing more. Get thqt info straight.
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Russ H
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 14:40
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Thanks nosferatu,

This post has been edited by Russ H: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 16:40
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 15:29
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Umm. No. So, edit that post again. Youve been told

Do
Not
Identify
The
Driver
Yet you keep on doing it. thi sis not a difficult direction to follow, really.

The hirer is the person hiring the vehicle under the PCH., They are the Hirer when it comes to POFA2012
The leasing company is REGISTERED with the DVLA as the KEEPER so they are the RK, not anyone else. If you disagree, then please show us a copy of the V5c in the hirers name.
The owner is likely the leasing company, as they have title. in fact on a PCH you never own the car as the hirer - no option to buy - so obviously again, they cant be the owner

The driver is just anyone who actually drove the car on that occasoin. That can be ANYONE and - importantly and I really cant stress this enough - the PPC has mp bloody clue who this is unless you keep on insisting on telling them who that is. Given the driver is the easiest person for them to chase, telling the literal world who that is is a monumenatlaly bad idea. Please, for the third time already, edsit and stop doing so.
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ostell
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 15:31
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EDIT AS YOU TOLD. Posts #3 & #5. The driver is out of it now, it is handled by the hirer/keeper.

As said how did they know the hire company if they were not the registered keeper, the name registered with the DVLA ?

How can the hire company know who the driver was, they weren't there? The hire company named the hirer/keeper.

Get editing those posts as I can surmise the identity of the driver, as can the parking company when they read this thread.

Or how to pull defeat out of the jaws of victory
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Russ H
post Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 11:17
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Morning,

A letter sent to the hirer/keeper

While there is Photographic evidence occompanying the letter, There are no copies of the hire agreement, nor is there a copy of the orignal PCN.

The letter states "A postal notification of parking has previously been served to the registered keeper of the vehicle, as per DVLA records, and we have reason to believe that you were driving and/or responsible for the vehicle at the time of the contravention"

It also states to do one of the following,
1) Pay the balance
2) Dospute the nature of the charge
3) Provide the drivers detail if the named driver of the letter was not the driver.


This post has been edited by Russ H: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 14:02
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The Rookie
post Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 11:28
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So you have the Notice to Hirer.

Why on earth would the bloody driver reply and give away their ID, seriously are you reading what is written?

The keeper appeals, THE KEEPER deals with it. the driver crawls off into a hole for the next 6 years and keeps schtum.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 11:29


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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ostell
post Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 13:49
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Edit your post !!!!! The hirer/keeper received a letter!

Have you actually READ that appeal in post 2?
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Russ H
post Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 14:07
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Yes I have read it, and it says "You now wait for your very own copy of the PCN addressed to you" - Which has happened

Its also says " To hold the hirer liable they have also to include a copy of the hire agreement and the original PCN. Most parking companies fail to do this and therefore cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the hire/keeper and so no liability under POFA." - Which has not been done


Instructions are
"If the documents are not provided then your response is:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


First class post with free certificate of posting from a post office. "


So I will do as thats instructs and post that respoinse. Sorry for double checking.

Thanks
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ostell
post Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 21:29
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And the response is from the hirer/keeper, nobody else
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Russ H
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 20:29
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Just so I dont mess up here, do I sign the letter by my name, or make no refernece to names?

Another question, I remember from previous advise that its reocmmend to send the letter a few days prior to time frame given in the letter ending, so to limit their ability in sending the correct documentation. The end of this the 28 days fulls on the 2nd, so I would need to send this around the 27th. Assuming they probably wont be in the office and therefore wont review the letter tfter 2nd, should I send this sooner?
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ostell
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 21:15
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They already know your name so why shouldn't you sign it ? They need to know who the letter is from

They have to deliver within 21 says so send so that it arrives on day 19
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The Rookie
post Fri, 13 Dec 2019 - 04:45
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To clarify, they have to send a compliant Notice to Hirer within 21 days of getting the reply from the hire company. So send your appeal after circa 19 days from the date on the notice to hirer and they do not have time to try again.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Russ H
post Wed, 18 Dec 2019 - 08:49
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Thank you for all your help on this Ostell and Rookie.

Based on the date the hirer recieved the letter, the 19th day would be the 24th Decemeber. Given the parking companies office will possibly be closed on that date, do I need to send the letter to arrive say this Friday 20th or Monday 23rd or is the time frame based on when the attempted delivery happened (You can not be responsible for their office being closed and them not recieving the letter before the 21 days due to the Christmas shut down can you?)
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 18 Dec 2019 - 09:23
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Youre not responsible for their office being shut, of course not
The point of the 19 days is so that it doesnt turn up BEFORE 21. Turning up AFTER 21 but within their appeal window is of course also fine.
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Russ H
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 16:43
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A Very Happy New Year to All on this forum, Hope 2020 is a good one

The hirer has now heard back from the parking company, as well as their debt collection agent.

The letter from the parking company to the hirer stated "We are unable to process your appeal as your case is with one of our external debt collection agencies or solicitors. You will now need to contact them regarding your case, all contact details for them can be found on previous correspondance they have sent you"

The debt collection company have also sent a letter saying their client has tried to settle the parking charges and they remain unsettled, and that their client is now assessing cases on their merits for enforcement through the county courts. They also threaten solicitor costs, courts costs, CCJs etc if the payment is not made by 23/01/2020.

The original Parking notice was issued to the leasing company on 13/10/19
This was then sent to the hirer with a postiung date of 03/12/2019 with a date of notice given as 05/12/19 (with 28 days to reply)
The reply as above was sent on 23/12/19 and delivered on 2/01/19


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The Rookie
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 06:14
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Did you appeal within the time limit specified on the Notice to Hirer?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Russ H
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 09:37
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Hi

The original parking notice was issued to the leasing company on 13/10/2019
It was not reissued to the hirer until 05/12/2019 (was posted on 3/12/2019, but says notice given as 5/12/2019)

The letter stated “you are invited to do one of the following within 28 days: 1) Pay, 2) Provide the driver details, 3) Dispute

I posted (tracked) the response recommended above on 23/12/2019 (18 days after notice given). Due to the Christmas period it was delivered on 2/01/2020 which is actually the 28th day after the notice was given (but 30 days after the date they posted the notice, I assume you take the date the notice is given though and ignore this date?)

This post has been edited by Russ H: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 09:43
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