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Claim Form from Northants, BW Legal ramp it up....
Videoman
post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 20:07
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Hello. I just got back from a holiday and found a Claim form relating to BW Legal demanding over £200. It relates to an alleged parking indiscretion in April 2018 with NCP. I initially ignored everything from NCP and then Trace debt recovery. I received a Letter of Claim in September '18 for £160, I replied to this one.

My reply contained much of the following;

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims. As such, I require NCP to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. The evidence they have that confirms that I was the driver at the time of the alleged contravention (which I dispute)
3. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
4. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? Please provide the names of the parties to it along with a copy of that contract.
5. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
6. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which authority to bring the claim is asserted, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1, establishing yourself as the creditor.
7. A map showing where any signs were displayed, including those upon entering the car park where the alleged contravention took place
8. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

As your client is presumably suggesting that the Registered Keeper was in fact the driver of the vehicle, then they are obviously not relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, and therefore cannot claim keeper liability. As such, I can only assume they are pursuing me as the driver, and I would like to see their evidence of who was driving the vehicle. As PATAS and POPLA Lead Adjudicator and barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, clarified in 2015 with regards to keeper liability: ''there is no reasonable presumption in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver, and operators should never suggest anything of the sort.''

If your client does not provide me with the above information, then I will ask the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the new Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings in the meantime.

BW Legal put their claim on hold until NCP produced the 'evidence'. This evidence was produced in Dec 2018 and contained just the two letters that they apparently sent to me in April and May 2018. A PCN to Keeper ( £100 ) giving me 28 days to pay and then a Keeper Liability Notice , 14 days to pay, £100 fee.
And now to the present and Claim Form for £177 amount claimed, plus costs comes to £250+. It is dated 1st July 2019.
I then receive a letter from BW Legal dated 1st July saying that 'following the expiry of a pre action protocol letter before action, we have now issued proceedings..... The say in bold letters '' it not too late to get in touch''. They are threatening CCJ's etc.
So my friends..... what should I be doing next.
Thank you in anticipation.


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post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 20:07
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Videoman
post Mon, 5 Aug 2019 - 12:50
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Thank you for that clarification, Redivi.
I have sent my defence off using the MCOL and also sent a virtually identical letter in pdf format, including a signature, to ccbc@justice.gov.uk with all of my Claim no. details etc.
Do I just wait now? :-)

This post has been edited by Videoman: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 - 15:01


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Videoman
post Sun, 11 Aug 2019 - 01:32
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Just an update to say that I have received a letter from The Court saying that my defence has been lodged and the Claimant now has 28 days to decide what they want to do.
Thank you all for your assistance. I will let you know what else occurs.
Cheers :-)


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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 10:48
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Good news! But KEEP ON researching!
You MUSt be aware of the steps in the process you have to follow.
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Videoman
post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 14:34
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I will continue to research the steps etc.... but I have a week take a breather now, I presume?
Cheers


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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 15:43
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Yep, but dont forget entirely!
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Videoman
post Wed, 4 Sep 2019 - 03:01
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I had a letter from BW Legal yesterday. Their client is continuing the claim.... :-(.
This may sound too simplistic but, surely BW Legal/NCP must provide evidence that the vehicle was actually 'sat-there, parked, unmoved' for the time that they allege? Don't they have to prove their case to a judge as opposed to me proving that the vehicle wasn't 'sat-there, parked' .
And now, I fear, the work begins...?
Cheers.


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Redivi
post Wed, 4 Sep 2019 - 06:23
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Nobody has to prove anything

The judge only has to decide on the balance of probabilities - where was the car more likely to be

Your defence says that the estate agent car park has a different operator:

A landlord with business at the estate agent is more likely to use its free car park than pay NCP
A motorist shopping in town is more likely to use the public car park

It's a bit late now but have you checked with the estate agent that it's their own free car park ?
Unless their cars are white-listed, the staff would be getting NCP notices every day

This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 - 06:27
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Videoman
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 10:14
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Hiya Redivi.
The estate agent car park has a few out of date 'we will clamp you' signs on the walls but the shops etc that use it don't have to pay anything. And as far as Im concerned I wouldn't have parked in an area that needs payment when I can 'uninvitingly' park in the shops car park.
And if it is true that no one has to prove anything, then I intend to call in and see my friends in the shops and tell them of my plight and although they will not be able to say categorically that I was in their car park on any specific day/time.... which is the same for me.... I will ask them to write a letter/email to say that I do, and have, visited their premises in the past and have always behaved in a polite and honest way when they have dealt with me as a client.
It's a bit of a character reference as well as proof that I did/have frequented their premises.
Apart from that, how else can I prove that I wasn't parked in their car park??
Cheers


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Redivi
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 10:36
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Letters that you regularly parked in the estate agent car park are a good idea
I wouldn't ask for the character witness, just a simple statement of fact that you're a regular client who uses the car park

You could also include in your evidence park a copy of a contract with the estate agent
Even better, any evidence of a meeting on this date, even if it's nothing more than somebody's diary entry

It's then NCP's problem to show that on this occasion, you probably parked in their car park

It doesn't matter if this identifies the driver
If NCP issues a new claim against this person it's still faced with the problem
They can't deny that the evidence of the driver's identity is also evidence that the car wasn't where they claim

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Videoman
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:13
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So far I have received a letter off BW Legal saying that their client wishes to continue the claim and that was a week ago. It arrived at my house on the 29th day after my defence was received by MCOL. I did receive a letter from the courts just after my defence was received saying to basically sit-tight until we contact you again. Soo far they have not written or put anything on MCOL. What happens next?
Thank you
Videoman


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Redivi
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:30
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The court will send you a Directions Questionnaire that will be used to decide where any hearing will be held
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Videoman
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 15:53
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Thank you for letting me know, Redivi.


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Videoman
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 16:38
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Hi Everybody!
Quick update.
I sent off my Directions Questionnaire to both BW legal and the Court and obtained a Proof of Posting from local PO.
I said that there would be 1 witness ( me ).
I didn't agree to go to Small Claims mediation but did say that ' Small Claims ' was the most appropriate way.
Today i received a DQ from BW Legal.
They are virtually begging me to call them and 'bring matters to a conclusion' .... and 'you can make payment...propose a repayment plan' etc !
I will not be calling them, despite their comment of 'We look forward to hearing from you' ! lol
Now then, a little bit of info required please...
BW Legal have inserted a big, fat ' 0 ' where it asks ' how many witnesses will be called'. Does that mean that they won't attend Court at all when this case comes to its Big Day?
Thank you in advance.
Videoman


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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 08:25
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As you will know from reading court threads, almost no Claiamnt ever turns up.Its just a legal rep, who is by definition not a witness.
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Videoman
post Tue, 1 Oct 2019 - 11:43
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So what can this Legal Rep say/do then if he is not down as a witness?
I really don't understand how BW Legal can send me to Court without ANY evidence that I had breached their contract and I have to defend myself. Surely a courtroom is for the Clamant to prove that the driver was in contravention of their contract?
It oddest seem right, that all....
Videoman


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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 1 Oct 2019 - 13:27
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They can
- present the claimants evidence
- present the claimants case

Same as ANY lawyer can in court!

Anyone can take anyone to court, and can do this in the exacct same way - and you do indeed ask the corut to make the C prove their case. THEN You show how your defence deals with that.
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Videoman
post Wed, 2 Oct 2019 - 06:06
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Cheers for that. :-)


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Videoman
post Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 15:59
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Just another update for this ewho have helped me so far...
I have received a Notice of Transfer of Proceedings.
This letter says that I should wait for the Judges directions rather than ring the Court that has been nominated with any questions...... so I am waiting for further instructions now.
Since the arrival of the Notice, I have received another 'offer' of NCP reducing their claim amount by over £60 if I ring and settle with them.
I haven't rang them.
I trust that by not ringing the Court and by not ringing NCP, that I am doing the correct thing??
Cheers.


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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 06:25
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Well it depends - is their offer low enough you would consider it to avoid going to court? Thats a decision only you can make

You know the next step is to serve NCP and the court your WS and bundle. SO I would suggest you start writing your WS now, so WHEN you get your hearing allocation letter from your local court, which WLL contain the deadline you need to abide by, you are ahead of the game.
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Videoman
post Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 15:43
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Hi Everybody!
No, their offer is still 3 figures and that is far far too much.
And regarding being ahead of the game, then I am with you on that one, great idea! :-)
I presume that the court will tell me when to 'serve' my WS 'bundle' to all parties?
I presume 'serve' means 'give' them my WS and bundle.... but what will be in the 'bundle' ?
What sort of notice do you get when the Courts give you a date of the hearing, 2 weeks from postmark, 2 months, 6 months ??
I am now going to try and ascertain what needs to be included in my WS.
Thank you for helping me with my questions. :-)



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