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Arrested for speeding 5 months ago, 5 days before voluntary interview
justy
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 11:17
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Hi All,

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this question but hopefully someone can advise me.

I was arrested for speeding last week (alleged offence was 5 months ago) 5 days before my voluntary interview which had been scheduled 6 weeks earlier.
I was woken by a bang on my door at 8am on Saturday morning and greeted to 6 officers (5 male and 1 female). They arrested me and took me to the police station leaving 4 officers to search my house and sheds.
They removed my car and still have it to photograph it.

Just wanted to know if this is usual as I have had a clean license for 20 years and dispute the offence, I have also never been in trouble with the police before.
I have been advised that it was a unlawful arrest due to my agreed interview that was happening 5 days later.

Cheers in advance
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post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 11:17
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andy_foster
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 11:31
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Sorry, this is not the correct forum. You want the psychics forum.

Clearly you were not arrested "for speeding". It is entirely understandable that you might not want to post the full story, but if you were expecting a meaningful response without providing anything to base such a response on, it would seem that you are somewhat delusional.


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samthecat
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 11:31
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Not the usual way most speeding offences are dealt with!

Call me cynical but I suspect there may be more of a back story to this than you have included in the opening post?


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justy
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 11:47
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As said above I am disputing the speeding offence as I had my car stolen and my replacement is the same make and model with the same private number plate.
My defence from the very start to the police was it was a cloned car so they are trying to build a case for perverting the course of justice.
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mickR
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 11:54
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Reminds me of that Jonny cash song ... I got it one peice at a time
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cp8759
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 12:10
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QUOTE (justy @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 11:47) *
As said above I am disputing the speeding offence as I had my car stolen and my replacement is the same make and model with the same private number plate.
My defence from the very start to the police was it was a cloned car so they are trying to build a case for perverting the course of justice.

As others have hinted, if you want meaningful advice you'll have to post the full story, from the start. Well, not from the big bang onwards, but maybe start from the date when the car was stolen and you reported it to the police, and tell us everything that happened since (when you bought the replacement car, when you transferred the private registration over to the new car etc...). Otherwise we can only provide you with guesswork which won't be very useful.


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Jlc
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 12:14
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Have you actually been charged for anything yet?

I'm guessing but I suspect the Police do not believe your story about a clone/theft and think you are making it up to avoid the speeding.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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justy
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 12:41
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No I haven’t been charged yet, I was released under investigation.

The full story in as brief detail as I can as it is very long.

My car was stolen November 2015 from my drive. I reported it the sameday at 6am. I also cancelled my credit/bank cards is relevant later.

No police attended or did any proper investigating. I bought a replacement car in December 2015 same make and model.
January 2016 while looking for a towbar for my new car as my old one had one I found my old car stripped on ebay at a breakers in Bolton. I notified the police who went and checked and confirmed it was my car but could not prosecute due to the scrap yard apparently doing due diligence by checking the number plate belonged to that make and model car (false plates) no log book,keys or any paperwork was provided.
Police investigator told me there could be no charges as my plates were not on the car when delivered.

As I had found my car I was now allowed to put my private plate on to my new car which I did (same as what was on stolen car).

After many arguments with the ombudsman they eventually paid the right settlement figure.

Fast forward 9 months and my credit cards and debit cards where being used even though I had cancelled them. I was in the press, radio, TV as I was the contactless credit card expose.

I of course contacted the police and banks but police had jurisdiction problems as cards were being used in other county so there hands were again tied, so they told me.

Fast forward to September 2017 I get NIP through letter box so I ask for evidence as it didn’t sound right and when photos arrived I noticed a few discrepencies with the car and let the police know.
During the last 5 months I have made over 50 calls to the police to get this sorted as I am concerned what else my number plate could be doing and kept getting fobbed off that they were investigating.
In October 2 officers turned up at my house at 8.30am and interviewed me and checked my car, on leaving they said they were satisfied it was not me or my car and said they would pass it on to the sergeant. December 2017 as still nothing I made a complaint about the officers and was told by an Inspector that she would look into it and scheduled a voluntary interview at my local police station for January 18 2018 and I would not have any officers round my house till after that date had passed.
Saturday January 13 2018 I was woken up by a loud bang on my front door at 8am. When I opened it there was 6 officers who said I was under arrest.
2 of them put me in there car and took me to the police station and 4 stayed and searched my property. They took numerous car parts and my car on a low loader.

I was released under investigation.

I hope the above makes sense.
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Jlc
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 12:54
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Ok, it doesn't seem they are pursuing the speeding/s172 offence. The latter being used for a 'failing to furnish driver details' - obviously quite difficult if it wasn't your car.

So without any other charge at the moment is there a question? Or as per the opening post about 'unlawful arrest'?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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justy
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 13:00
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 12:54) *
Ok, it doesn't seem they are pursuing the speeding/s172 offence. The latter being used for a 'failing to furnish driver details' - obviously quite difficult if it wasn't your car.

So without any other charge at the moment is there a question? Or as per the opening post about 'unlawful arrest'?



When arrested they said it was for:

Speeding
Not returning NIP - Even though I was told by Central Ticket Office that it was on hold while the cloned car investigation was ongoing
Perverting the course of Justice

Questions really are:
6 officers and search 5 months after the alleged offence seems excessive. When I asked they said they had to do it in case I got rid of evidence. Now being realistic if the offence was 5 months ago wouldn't I have done it then?

Unawfull arrest as I had a voluntary interview 5 days later, Is my advice right?

Taking of my car, so far over a week..is that lawful?
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southpaw82
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 13:39
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QUOTE (justy @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 13:00) *
When arrested they said it was for:

Speeding
Not returning NIP - Even though I was told by Central Ticket Office that it was on hold while the cloned car investigation was ongoing
Perverting the course of Justice


Whilst technically a power of arrests exists for speeding none of the grounds appear to be made out. Your arrest appears to have been for PCOJ.

QUOTE
Unlawful arrest as I had a voluntary interview 5 days later, Is my advice right?


One of the grounds is for the prompt and effective investigation of the offence. If you were going to attend a voluntary interview that test probably wasn’t met. However, if they had to arrest you in order to exercise powers of search (which seems to be the case) then it’s most likely lawful.

QUOTE
Taking of my car, so far over a week..is that lawful?


If it’s suspected to be evidence of an offence then yes.


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cp8759
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 15:19
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 13:39) *
However, if they had to arrest you in order to exercise powers of search (which seems to be the case) then it’s most likely lawful.

Following R (oao TL) v Surrey Police [2017] EWHC 129, the desire on the part of the police to exercise their search powers is not in itself a ground for arrest in the absence of "exigent operational reasons" which mean it would be undesirable to delay a search until a warrant can be obtained (see paras 62-73), given the delays involved in this case, it is unlikely such exigent circumstances were present. The police would need another free-standing ground of arrest, absent "prompt and effective", I'm not sure what the free standing ground might be.


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henrik777
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 15:30
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If the original posters claims are pretty accurate, i cannot even see why they were holding an interview when their own records should indicate the "story" is pretty truthful, never mind a raid.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:30
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To add some clarity, you clearly aren’t denying the speeding offence occurred (as you have no facts on which to base any denial) but that you or your car were involved.

It’s quite clear the Police don’t believe that and are seeking to prove an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Their actions (as indicated by SP) would probably be classed as proportional to that offence. Did you inform the ticket office in writing that your car wasn’t at the scene of the crime as would be required for you to satisfy the requirements of S172?

Despite being the same make and model, and having (at time of the theft) the same reg number (which it would be unusual for a thief to leave on it has to be said) I presume it’s also the same colour, but there may also be other identifying details they can use to separate one from the other.

He risk comments are optimistic, even if the facts are not in doubt, it doesn’t preclude an attempt to PCOJ.


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S172's
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justy
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:59
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Cheers cp8759 that could be helpful.

henrik777 my point exactly.

No, I am not denying the speeding offence happened. Just not me or my car were involved.

I did send the ticket office in writing that it was not me or my car and provided pics as they requested them for comparison.

Yes my car is the same make, model and colour. The differences with the pictured car and mine are that they have different coloured grills. Apart from that they are indentical by the pictures seen.
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southpaw82
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 17:46
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When you were interviewed did you have a lawyer? Did you answer questions, go no comment, or make a written statement?

You may decide to engage a lawyer, as I can foresee some interesting applications to exclude evidence and a potential civil claim.


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justy
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 18:04
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 17:46) *
When you were interviewed did you have a lawyer? Did you answer questions, go no comment, or make a written statement?

You may decide to engage a lawyer, as I can foresee some interesting applications to exclude evidence and a potential civil claim.


No, I didn't think I needed one at the time. I have now been advised I should get one as they have sent the case onto the CPS.

I answered all questions as I have nothing to hide.

Have made a complaint to my treatment to the IPCC as I have also been told when arrested I should have had the option to have a friend/neighbour etc supervise the 4 officers searching my house.

I am also unhappy that the officers involved are the ones I complained against in December and the 5 search slips and Released Under Investigation forms have errors.
2 of the 5 search slips have the wrong address (eg, 8 instead of 18) and the RUI has two places for my name and one is right and the second is wrong.
This level of incompetence concerns me as my life is in there hands.
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cp8759
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 18:18
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I agree that you should seek professional representation, the charge that is being contemplated is very serious indeed; the arrest and search may well have been unlawful but the grounds for this are very technical and if you are to persuade a court, you will probably struggle if you are not represented.

I wouldn't bother with the Independent Office for Police Conduct, IMO it's a waste of time. Either you feel strongly enough to take out civil proceedings against the police, or you don't (Again if you want to sue the police, there are specialist lawyers who deal with claims against the police who will be able to advise you).


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Colin_S
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 18:21
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QUOTE (justy @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 12:41) *
They took numerous car parts and my car on a low loader.



QUOTE (justy @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:59) *
The differences with the pictured car and mine are that they have different coloured grills. Apart from that they are indentical by the pictures seen.


Did the parts taken include any grilles?
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justy
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 18:36
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QUOTE (Colin_S @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 18:21) *
Did the parts taken include any grilles?


No,

They took a pair of number plate as I had plastic ones that were replaced for metal ones, a spoiler, bulbs, car stereo, fuel container 10l, pair of foglights is what I have been told they took.
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