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PCN in access road RPZ with no repeater signs. Code 01
Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 03:56
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Hello everyone

I had been able to park on this road in Richmond for years without incident and automatically did the same recently without seeing 2 newly installed RPZ entry signs (the type with no lower panel - apparently this means 'at any time').

There are no 'repeater' signs within the zone. According to the TSM, under section 15.3, Clause 15.3.1 states:

' "At any time" signs are needed as there are no double yellow lines within the zone.'

The road is just over 60 metres in length and there is a large building at the end. The boundary of the zone in relation to the land which is part of the building is not clear; especially as there are no distinctive road surface features (this is also mentioned in the TSM, albeit an advisory).

With regards to the access road (which runs across a common), it is not listed as a publicly maintained road on Richmond Council's website; nor is it listed as a highway, footpath or accommodation road. Also, it is not on their list of CPZ's and there is nothing on their website regarding RPZ's in their borough.

I found via a planning application that the building's occupants have a right of access; and since the property was recently converted to flats, the Council applied for an experimental order to introduce an RPZ.

Does this road fall under their jurisdiction? Are they permitted to introduce restrictions and issue PCN's on an access Road?

How do you think I should proceed? Any input would be much appreciated.

Many thanks


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post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 03:56
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Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 04:07
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Higher quality pics below:








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hcandersen
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 08:58
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Does this road fall under their jurisdiction? How would we know, you've not even given us the location as stated in the PCN?

Are they permitted to introduce restrictions and issue PCN's on an access Road? As above.


How do you think I should proceed? No idea because as you've deleted all dates we don't know where you are in the process.


Given the close proximity of the signs to what is presumably your car, then you would have a problem convincing anyone that the restriction was not clearly marked in your case.
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Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 10:51
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Does anyone know the situation regarding the access road? Are they even permitted to introduce restrictions and issue PCN's?
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stamfordman
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 11:33
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As you've blanked the location how can we tell.
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Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 11:57
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The access road is located off Star and Garter Hill. According to the map, the road doesn't even exist; all that is shown is Petersham Common. The street view image was taken before the restriction came into operation:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/TcnX8EkhsA5vF6CE8
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stamfordman
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 12:07
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Just reinstate all the info bar your VRM on the PCN.
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Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 12:50
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CEO photo with coordinates below:

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Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 13:02
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Another CEO pic with coordinates below. I am still within the 14 day discount period:

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stamfordman
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 13:14
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For peaking read parking...

LONDON BOROUGH OF RICHMOND UPON THAMES

ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATION ACT 1984

THE LONDON BOROUGH OF RICHMOND UPON THAMES (RESTRICTED PARKING ZONE) (STAR AND GARTER SERVICE ROAD) EXPERIMENTAL ORDER 2019

STAR AND GARTER SERVICE ROAD, RICHMOND

(REFERENCE 19/200)

1. The Council of the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames on 27 November 2019 made the above Orders under sections 9 and 10 of, and Part IV of Schedule 9 to, the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, as amended.

2. The general effect of the order is to introduce a restricted peaking zone, operating at all times, in the Star and Garter Service Road, in that area of public highway which lies some 75 metres south of Sawyer’s Hill and from the western kerb-line of Star and Garter Hill, north-westwards for a distance of 62 metres including the turning area adjacent to the south-eastern boundary of Star and Garter House, the effect being that no person shall cause or permit any vehicle to wait or stand in the restricted parking zone except for the purposes of loading or unloading

3. Copies of the Order which comes into force on 9 December 2019, a plan showing the location and effect of the Order and the Council’s Statement of Reasons for making the Order:-

(a) can be inspected, quoting Reference 19/200, at the Civic Centre (Central Reception, ground floor), 44 York Street, Twickenham between 9.15am and 5pm on Mondays to Fridays, except for Bank and other public holidays; and

(b) may be viewed on the Council’s web-site at http://www.richmond.gov.uk/public_notices.

4. In pursuance of section 10(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 the Assistant Director, Traffic and Engineering of the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, as the specified officer, or some person authorised in that behalf by that officer may, if it appears to that officer or to that person essential in the interests of the expeditious, convenient and safe movement of traffic, or of the provision of suitable and adequate parking facilities on the highway, or for preserving or improving the amenities of the areas through which the roads affected by the Order runs, modify or suspend the Order or any provision thereof.

5. If the provisions of the Order continue in operation for a period of not less than six months, the Council will consider in due course whether the provisions should be reproduced and continued in force indefinitely by means of an Order under section 6 of the said Act of 1984. Persons wishing to object to or support the making of such an Order for the purpose of such reproduction and continuation in force may, within the period of six months referred to above (i.e. by 12 June 2020) send a statement in writing of their objection and the grounds of that objection to the address below.

6. Please address any representations to this Order to the Head of Engineering, Traffic and Parking Policy, Civic Centre, 44 York Street, Twickenham TW1 3BZ,or email Trafficandengineering@richmondandwandsworth.gov.uk.

7. If any person wishes to question the validity of this Order or of any of their provisions on the grounds that they are not within the powers conferred by the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, or that any requirement of the said Act of 1984 or of any instrument made under the said Act of 1984 has not been complied with, that person may, within 6 weeks from the date on which the Order was made, apply for the purpose to the High Court.

Nick O’Donnell

Assistant Director, Traffic and Engineering

Civic Centre, 44 York St, Twickenham, TW1 3BZ

Dated 29 November 2019

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 13:17
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Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 14:51
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I note under paragraph 2 they have described the road as 'public highway' but it is specifically excluded from their list of publicly maintained roads from their list below: 'Star & Garter Hill (excluding access to S&G)'

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=...IjBxg0u6qn2wh5O

Disregarding why my vehicle was there, the public don't actually have the right to use the road; only the occupants of the building have a right of access.
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Neil B
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 17:31
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QUOTE (Gentian Violet @ Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 14:51) *
the public don't actually have the right to use the road; only the occupants of the building have a right of access.

Nothing to prevent them though?

Irrespective of being private land I would say it's 'highway' as the public have unhindered access.

I don't think the list you've found is relevant.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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NeilCr
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 17:42
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Out of interest do you live in the building?

If so, what are the parking "arrangements" for residents?
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hcandersen
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 19:14
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So at present your argument appears to rest on the point that a highway which is not maintainable at public expense cannot be a public right of way and a road to which the relevant sections of the RTRA refer.

You are wrong, I'm afraid.

Not being maintained is not the determinant condition as regards s6 of the Act.

By the way, the council would have posted notices of their intention to make the order and you would have seen these, so what did you do? Did you object to the making of the order?

At present you are drip-feeding info.

And as we are not the arbiters in this matter and you appear to have resolved to challenge the PCN on the basis that this area lies beyond the authority's jurisdiction, then we should be looking at whether there are complimentary points, not whether we agree with yours?
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cp8759
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 20:27
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QUOTE (Gentian Violet @ Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 03:56) *
Does this road fall under their jurisdiction? Are they permitted to introduce restrictions and issue PCN's on an access Road?

Have a read of these cases:

Dawood, R (on the application of) v The Parking Adjudicator & Anor [2009] EWCA Civ 1411 http://bit.ly/2syPmVO
Also see the third to last paragraph of Nisha Patel v London Borough of Hounslow (2190096099, 13 April 2019) here http://bit.ly/2Ds5cYf (original thread here http://bit.ly/300W1Yn); in that case there was a much stronger case than we have here that the road was not one to which the public had unfettered access and it was still found to be a road for the purposes of section 142.

To deprive the council of jurisdiction, you'd need the land owner to assert ownership rights by installing a barrier or at least a sign that said "private road - no public right of way" or similar. As that has not happened and the council has made an order that covers that road, it's too late now.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Gentian Violet
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:15
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 19:14) *
So at present your argument appears to rest on the point that a highway which is not maintainable at public expense cannot be a public right of way and a road to which the relevant sections of the RTRA refer.

You are wrong, I'm afraid.

Not being maintained is not the determinant condition as regards s6 of the Act.

By the way, the council would have posted notices of their intention to make the order and you would have seen these, so what did you do? Did you object to the making of the order?

At present you are drip-feeding info.

And as we are not the arbiters in this matter and you appear to have resolved to challenge the PCN on the basis that this area lies beyond the authority's jurisdiction, then we should be looking at whether there are complimentary points, not whether we agree with yours?


I have kept the information concise and to the point as there's a tendency in forums to go off topic. The Council and adjudicators have no interest in whether I have business in the property at the end of the road or whether I saw any public notices for the new restriction.

Many thanks to cp8759 for posting those cases. Judging by the responses I have received, it would appear that it is not advisable to argue whether it's an access road or not; so where do I stand with regards to the lack of signs within the zone? From your experience, is this something an adjudicator would seriously consider?
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stamfordman
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:20
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We'd expect to see repeaters in a large zone with multiple streets. Not this one.

And you parked right by the zone entry sign?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:23
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