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RTC - Who's at fault.
JordR
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:34
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Good afternoon!

So I was second vehicle behind V2 in the below image, and witnessed this accident a couple of days ago, but couldn't decide who was a fault. V1 shouldn't have pulled in front of V2, across the hazard lines, but generally speaking the "rear-end-shunter" is always almost at fault. I sort of have sympathy for V2 because I definitely focus more of oncomers from the right after having checked in front and being safe in the knowledge that nothing should have manifested in front of me.

Excuse my crude drawing, but I reckon it helps to explain what happened.

What's your opinion, who's at fault?

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post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:34
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:11
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Not enough information to say.

If V1 had been stationary for 20 seconds then it was V2’s fault, if V1 pulled in front of V2 and braked hard and hadn’t yet stopped it was clearly V1’s fault, the swap over falls somewhere between those extremes.

The rear end shunter is almost always at fault because, well, they ARE almost always at fault, I know of one case where they weren’t and it happened to a friend of mine, he was turning right, a car was coming the other was so he was a bit ‘enthusiastic’, the car spun (yes this was the 1970’s) and he hit the car coming the other way while travelling backwards.


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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:41
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Is it safe to cross the hatchings from a filter lane?

It is necessary to cross the hatchings from a filter lane?

No to both, therefore as long as both cars were moving simultaneously it is V1 at fault. As Rookie says if V1 had moved significantly before V2 and then V2 hit the back of them sufficient that V1 had finished changing lanes, then it is V2 at fault.
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The Slithy Tove
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 20:28
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If the driver of V2 was only looking right, and seeing a gap, pulled off and rear ended V1 which was now in front, and did so without looking ahead first, then they have to take some blame, even though V1 should not have made the manoeuvre it did. So many roundabout accidents tend to end up being knock-for-knock.

If you are being asked by an insurance company to be a witness to the accident, then try not to be judgemental. Just say what you saw, and let them decide.
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cp8759
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 20:41
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 21:28) *
If you are being asked by an insurance company to be a witness to the accident, then try not to be judgemental. Just say what you saw, and let them decide.

Indeed, any opinion would be inadmissible anyway.


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DancingDad
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 21:42
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There is a classic accident type at roundabouts where 1st car moves a little, 2nd thinks they have gone and drives into back of first car.
This isn't too much different except 1st car crossed lanes.
Often, even with that, it does come down to 2nd car driver not looking where they are going.
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 21:48
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In this case it is different because V1 crossed hatchings, which convey a different meaning to a simple lane marking.

Here it is clear they were used because the left lane is intended as a filter lane, e.g. other vehicles can have some expectation that vehicles in that lane will be turning left. Otherwise filter lanes would essentially be meaningless if anyone could dive out of them when convenient.
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DancingDad
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:31
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 22:48) *
In this case it is different because V1 crossed hatchings, which convey a different meaning to a simple lane marking.

Here it is clear they were used because the left lane is intended as a filter lane, e.g. other vehicles can have some expectation that vehicles in that lane will be turning left. Otherwise filter lanes would essentially be meaningless if anyone could dive out of them when convenient.


Fully accept that and it does put V1 partially in the wrong.
But am still struggling with V2 driving into the back of V1.
It took time for V1 to cross the lines and get in front...... time where either V2 was not looking or had this overwhelming urge to ram V1.
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nigelbb
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:41
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It might seem at first sight unjust but I think that V2 will be held wholly to blame. Whatever V1 did the fact is that V2 entered a roundabout & rammed into the back of a car that was already on the roundabout. The driver of V2 clearly looked to the right & glanced to the left then kept on eye to their right & didn't see V1 changing lanes.


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