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PCN Bus lane Ealing Council Church Road Northolt, challenge decline, myself and Car never there????
out in the stick...
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 12:30
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Hello

I received a PCN notice from Ealing Council in regard to driving in the Bus lane on Church Road.

This was a total shock to me particularly as I live well out in the sticks on the Northern Edge of the Lincolnshire Wolds and have never driven in or through Ealing with or without my car in my life time.

I have challenged the PCN and I have received a 'Notice of Decline of Challenge' in the post. The next step I am informed is a formal representations and this has me very concerned.

I am an old man of 60 not in work, I do not have the funds to go to London or use others to make representation. Folks around are say that this is common practice for london councils to take a stand against those at distance from London as it is cheaper to pay the fine rather than challenge it.

There is no public transport of any form where I live, so I have to use the car to ferry wife and daughter to their place of works some 8 miles and 24 miles away, on the day of the alleged offense I was doing this daily routine but..... how do you prove this. How can I dispute camara evidence. I want to challenge this for two reasons, firstly I am totally innocent and also because I just dont have the money to pay it.

My questions therefore are

Should I just give in and pay the fine although I never committed it.
Is there a cost to a formal representation and would I have to travel to London? (something I cant do).
How do I prove I was never there.

I apologies if this is something you have come across again and again but I have found it hard to find a challenge that follows that you were never there to commit it and thank you for any assistance given

out in the sticks
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post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 12:30
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stamfordman
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 12:46
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PM me the PCN details - car reg and PCN number - and I'll have a look at online pics and video if there.

This sounds like a number plate misread or clone and there's no way you'll be paying - we'll sort it out.

Does the car look like yours in the PCN pics - they usually print one on the PCN.

Also, can you post the PCN and their rejection? And what you said in your appeal?

Put pics on https://imgbb.com

And not old at 60!

You can also email me pics - I'll give you my email on a personal message (PM).

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 13:34
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 13:20
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Get the info to Stamfordman he will check it out and post redacted copies here with your permission so we can all help. You will not have to travel to London to challenge further we can and will see you through the whole process

If your number plate has been cloned ( check the photos, look for slight differences its normal that the cloners pick the same model) you will need to report it to the police and the DVLA and think about changing your reg


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Neil B
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 13:32
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+1 to both the above.

Let us help.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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out in the stick...
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 14:03
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Thanks for the advice, pm sent. Just need to get the docs scanned and posted up plus the photo's sorted. Not got the abilities or the facility to do this until I can get hold of a family member to assist.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 15:03
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Car is Rover 75. Numberplate looks a bit dodgy to me.

Well if the P has become an R then there's an MG ZR coming up - that looks to me to be a similar front end? BJ05 NRF is also a MG ZR.

BJ05NPE
MG ZR
Colour
Silver

Fuel type
Petrol

Date registered
29 March 2005


have asked OP to see if he can get a witness to where he and car where at 17:00 that day.

pics too poor to tell differences between cars.

EDIT - video added.







This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 16:08
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nextdoor
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 15:08
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The number plate appears to lack the name and postcode of the supplying outlet which it must have by law.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 16:23
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Stamf, Can you load the video in a way that we can pause it?

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 16:21) *
Stamf, Can you load the video in a way that we can pause it?


Op can you spot any differences with the photos and your car?


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cp8759
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 16:38
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 15:03) *
pics too poor to tell differences between cars.

I respectfully disagree.

This is a 2005 Rover 75: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263753303682
This is a 2005 MG ZR: https://www.gumtree.com/p/mg/mg-zr-plus-105...ory-/1318587701

IMO the grille in the council pics quite clearly matches a Rover 75, however I agree the plate looks dodgy.

out in the sticks, on the face of it you're the indirect victim of a rather serious crime, someone else is driving around with your number plates in all likelihood so they can drive around with no tax, insurance or possibly even a driving licence. Criminals are known to do this in order to commit more serious crime, such as stealing petrol or even committing burglaries etc knowing that if anyone notes the number plate of the vehicle they are using, it cannot be traced back to them.

You must therefore report this to the police immediately, if someone has cloned your number plate this will cause you no end of problems if you don't deal with it promptly. Just call Lincolnshire Police (01522 532222), explain what you've told us (i.e. you live in Lincolnshire but are getting bus lane penalties from London, where you've never driven your car) and see if they can arrange for an ANPR marker to be put on the vehicle. This way the Metropolitan Police will be alerted to the vehicle whenever it goes through an ANPR camera in London (and as you might know there's loads of cameras in London), and hopefully whoever is doing this can be stopped and arrested before it causes you any more problems.

You should also get a crime reference number, you can then challenge the Penalty Charge Notice on the statutory ground that you were never the owner of the vehicle in question (because although it's displaying your number plate, it isn't your car). The council are likely to accept this if provided with a crime reference number or any documentary evidence to show you've reported this to the police.

Most importantly, you must be aware that there are no costs in challenging a PCN, and even if the matter were to end up in the tribunal everything can be done online or by post, there is absolutely no need for you to travel to London to deal with this.


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stamfordman
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 16:46
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 16:38) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 15:03) *
pics too poor to tell differences between cars.

I respectfully disagree.

This is a 2005 Rover 75: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263753303682
This is a 2005 MG ZR: https://www.gumtree.com/p/mg/mg-zr-plus-105...ory-/1318587701

IMO the grille in the council pics quite clearly matches a Rover 75, however I agree the plate looks dodgy.



I meant too poor to tell the differences between two 75s.

It does seem suspicious that there are several ZRs with similar plates (there are another 2 at least). Could have a new grille on.

But OP should indeed notify authorities an mobilise a witness if poss.

Here's video on flickr for start/stop:



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 16:51
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out in the stick...
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 17:12
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Here are the photo's of my own car and close up of number plate

In relation to witness, my location is extremely remote, the community in which I live consists of deer, sheep and pheasants, no humans around me to see if myself or my car were there. However I did pick my wife up from her place of work in Caistor, Lincolnshire. That is the Caistor near Grimsby at 16.00hrs. According to a friend who travels down to London area it would take about 3hrs to get to the M25 from my house. Later I visited mys sons home in Grimsby at approx 18.00hrs.


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cp8759
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 17:16
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QUOTE (out in the sticks @ Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 17:12) *
Here are the photo's of my own car and close up of number plate

In relation to witness, my location is extremely remote, the community in which I live consists of deer, sheep and pheasants, no humans around me to see if myself or my car were there. However I did pick my wife up from her place of work in Caistor, Lincolnshire. That is the Caistor near Grimsby at 16.00hrs. According to a friend who travels down to London area it would take about 3hrs to get to the M25 from my house. Later I visited mys sons home in Grimsby at approx 18.00hrs.


Attached Image

As stated above, you need to get the police involved. If you don't, a bus lane PCN will be the least of your problems.


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Neil B
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 17:18
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Give us a wider view please


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 17:23
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I'd say my suspicions about the R/P may be right - but in any case they are not the same plate.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 18:13
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OP's car pics. roof rails maybe?





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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 18:18
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Plenty of differences that can be pointed out. Councils can be obtuse but an adjudicator will play spot the difference with some success

Outinthesticks. you need to do two things

1 get on to the police as per CP


post all the documents you have from the council. One of us will write a representation for you




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out in the stick...
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 19:31
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Thank you again

In regard to the police, I have contacted Lincolnshire Police and basically they say that it can not be reported to them as the cloned vehicle is in the London area so I must contact the Met. I have been on the Met website and for the life of me can not find a telephone number to report a crime, the only number listed is HR and there is no one there. However I wont give up, hopefully I will find it somewhere else. All documents in relation to the PCN will be forwarded tomorrow.
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Neil B
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 19:55
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QUOTE (out in the sticks @ Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 20:31) *
I have been on the Met website and for the life of me can not find a telephone number to report a crime,


sign10.gif

You definitely haven't been to London!


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 20:00
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You could use this form

https://www.met.police.uk/ro/report/

or call 101 and ask to be put through to the met


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Neil B
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 20:06
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 21:00) *
or call 101 and ask to be put through to the met

I doubt he's got a couple of days to spare. huh.gif


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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