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Warning others of scamera vans
Intrepidless
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:16
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I've recently had it bought to my attention that the police are looking to prosecute people flashing lights to warn of a camera, after an (limited) amount of research I've found this has already been done several times in the past.
(please correct me if im wrong) but it seems breaking the highway code 110 and 111 can be used as evidence but it isn't enough for a conviction
The conviction comes from obstructing a constable however in the vans there's never a constable on site, they're always council workers so how can you be obstructing a constable?

Just to point out I'm in no way for this practice, as someone flashing their lights at me for seemingly no reason, that is until you can see the camera yourself just seems pointless and annoying.
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post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:16
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peterguk
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:34
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QUOTE (Intrepidless @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:16) *
it seems breaking the highway code 110 and 111 can be used as evidence but it isn't enough for a conviction


The Highway Code will have nothing to do with being convicted.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:55
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Pretty sure a search would get you the answer you’re looking for.


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glasgow_bhoy
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 23:07
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I'm pretty sure its not a council worker in the vans up here... possibly a civilian member of police staff but nothing to do with the council.
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cp8759
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 19:17
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QUOTE (Intrepidless @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:16) *
I've recently had it bought to my attention that the police are looking to prosecute people flashing lights to warn of a camera, after an (limited) amount of research I've found this has already been done several times in the past.
(please correct me if im wrong) but it seems breaking the highway code 110 and 111 can be used as evidence but it isn't enough for a conviction

Absent a confession, how are the police going to prove that the accused flashed his lights with the intention of warning others of the presence of the police?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JP1978
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 21:35
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 19:17) *
QUOTE (Intrepidless @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:16) *
I've recently had it bought to my attention that the police are looking to prosecute people flashing lights to warn of a camera, after an (limited) amount of research I've found this has already been done several times in the past.
(please correct me if im wrong) but it seems breaking the highway code 110 and 111 can be used as evidence but it isn't enough for a conviction

Absent a confession, how are the police going to prove that the accused flashed his lights with the intention of warning others of the presence of the police?


Sorry officer, i just knocked the stalk
Sorry officer, I was driving a old isuzu yesterday and the windscreen wipers were the other side
Sorry officer, I just knocked them while indicating to change lanes.....
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Mr Meldrew
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 22:17
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 19:17) *
QUOTE (Intrepidless @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 17:16) *
I've recently had it bought to my attention that the police are looking to prosecute people flashing lights to warn of a camera, after an (limited) amount of research I've found this has already been done several times in the past.
(please correct me if im wrong) but it seems breaking the highway code 110 and 111 can be used as evidence but it isn't enough for a conviction

Absent a confession, how are the police going to prove that the accused flashed his lights with the intention of warning others of the presence of the police?

And the prosecutor would have to prove that the ‘flasher’ did flash his headlights at the place and time the motorists flashed did speed or were likely to, as there’s no known criminal offence of attempting to obstruct the police in the execution of their duty according to the existing authority, if I have that correct.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2005/2333.html


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southpaw82
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 22:58
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QUOTE (Mr Meldrew @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 22:17) *
And the prosecutor would have to prove that the ‘flasher’ did flash his headlights at the place and time the motorists flashed did speed or were likely to, as there’s no known criminal offence of attempting to obstruct the police in the execution of their duty according to the existing authority, if I have that correct.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2005/2333.html

If memory serves you can’t attempt to commit a non-indictable offence as s 1 of the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 only applies to indictable offences.


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Mr Meldrew
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 23:17
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 22:58) *
QUOTE (Mr Meldrew @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 22:17) *
And the prosecutor would have to prove that the ‘flasher’ did flash his headlights at the place and time the motorists flashed did speed or were likely to, as there’s no known criminal offence of attempting to obstruct the police in the execution of their duty according to the existing authority, if I have that correct.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2005/2333.html

If memory serves you can’t attempt to commit a non-indictable offence as s 1 of the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 only applies to indictable offences.

Thank you for the source of the source, S1(4) I believe (having looked it up).


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facade
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 17:55
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QUOTE (JP1978 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 21:35) *
Sorry officer, i just knocked the stalk
Sorry officer, I was driving a old isuzu yesterday and the windscreen wipers were the other side
Sorry officer, I just knocked them while indicating to change lanes.....


What is wrong with a simple "Sorry officer, I was merely alerting other road users to my presence, in accordance with Highway Code Rule 110, as I thought that they might not have seen me, and may in fact have been about to stray into my lane"?

Flashing headlights has no other meaning.....
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Jlc
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 18:01
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One flash is a ‘thank you’ and two is a ‘go on then’. Everyone knows that... wink.gif


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Richy320
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 18:37
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Speeding's a crime isn't it?

Isn't flashing your headlights and encouraging other drivers to slow down crime prevention?

I seem to remember we used to have bobbies who's job was crime prevention.

Strange old world, being prosecuted for preventing crime.


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Speed does not kill. It's more to do with how you stop.
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bama
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 22:51
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when this was tried previously didn't the prosecution fail as they could not prove that the drivers being flashed were exceeding the speed limit at the time they were flashed.


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 23:20
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Shouldn't the guys who install speed camera signs be prosecuted smile.gif
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typefish
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 09:11
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 18:01) *
One flash is a ‘thank you’ and two is a ‘go on then’. Everyone knows that... wink.gif


In my flash book I also have the four flashes, which is basically "slow down right now otherwise you will go into the back of a stationary ambulance or into a deep puddle that is around a blind bend"

Still can't understand why it's generally illegal to "misuse" lights to show the presence of speed enforcement - especially with there being at least one death directly related to the presence of a camera van. sad.gif
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mickR
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 10:06
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Are you refering to the unfortunate motor cyclist?
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typefish
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 10:26
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Unfortunately so.
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